When to resell an Orchid?

[MateoinLosAngeles]

I've been asking myself this question lately after a disappointing experience with a seller.

When is it fair to resell an orchid?

Should one expect to buy an orchid from the person that has taken care of that Orchid? Or is it ethical to buy an Orchid for $9, and resell it the same week for $18?

How much care should be given to making sure that the Orchid is in good health and developed before making it available to the public, and if the resale happens swiftly, should that be disclosed?

I can understand how one may pay the markup of a local nursery that has gone through the import process. But should an Orchid seller disclose that they've bought an orchid from a grower and are reselling them shortly after with a considerable markup, and what about deceiving information such as disguising a seedling as a mature plant?

Very curious to know your opinions on ethics and expectations here. I will say one thing: buy from sellers you trust!!

[jcec1]

If as a buyer then you have accepted that the price is fair, after all nobody is forcing you to buy it. Whether the seller has had it a day, a week, a year makes no difference.

[tmoney]

hmmm, that’s an interesting one. i feel that the decline of ethics instruction and business ethics in general is a bad thing. however, the free market is its own entity, so if an item can be sold for more than the original grower/importer has it listed for, then that is really just a loss to that middleman and in theory they could just raise their prices to reflect what the market will bear. however, it is bad for the end user because these sorts of practices drive up prices...however, it is sort of on the buyer to be informed. so, if somebody pays 10 bux for a plant they could have had for 5, well then, that’s just not good consumership and so....tough.

but yeah, clearly in all business there are companies who are really skimming and taking advantage of lazy consumers. neither of these things is good (swarmy, sleazy businesses AND lazy consumers).

[Ray]

The action of buying and reselling is not ethical or unethical by itself. Many orchid businesses do just that.

Likewise for how soon the sale is made after receipt. When I started selling plants, which were 100% resales, I had a group of customers who wanted me to alert them immediately when they got them, in, so they could be sure to get some. There were even a few cases in which I didn't even unwrap the incoming plants, and just popped 'em into a new box. I made it a point to say "recently acquired" in the listing.

Cost versus selling price is nobody's business but that of the seller. As jcec1 stated, if you think the price is fair, buy it. If not, don't.

Over the years, I have acquired peoples' collections after a death in the family, divorce, and one time a guy growing phrags moving to a desert environment without a greenhouse. I literally paid pennies on the dollar for them. That does not mean I was ethically obliged to sell them for a few pennies on the dollar, does it? Absolutely not. Consider this analogy: you decide to buy a cheap "barn find" Fiat sight unseen, hoping to resell it for parts, but when you get it, you discover it's a Ferrari. Are obliged to sell it at Fiat prices?

However, where ethics does come into play is if they knowingly sell a "so-so" plant, or fail to make amends when an issue is discovered.

[Louis_W]

I would like to add, in regard to deceiving people about the size, that there are somewhat standard ways tp measure the maturity of the plant. Since orchids can very wildly in mature size, you measure by how many years it will take to be old enough to bloom.

Im not a grower so i dont really know these numbers but ill take a educated guess. Perhaps the growers can correct me if im wrong.

Seedling-only a year or two old. May take from 2 to 10 years to bloom depending on species

NBS (near bloomong size) - the plant will be old enough to bloom in the next year or maybe two if you are pushing it.

BS (blooming size) - plants are mature enough to bloom now.

Specimen the plant is already impressive and capable of making multiple growths and flower spikes.

Division - this is a cut chunk of a mature plant which is large enough to grow. Usually from 2- 4 growths and often potted and rooted already. This one has the added bonus of being exactly the same as the parent plant so you know exactly what you are getting.



When I buy a plant I expect it to be healthy, free of pests, true to name and properly categorized according to maturity. If that is what I get, I will not complain about the price I volunteered to pay.

[estación seca]

Most supermarkets in the US turn over their inventory in less than a week.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Louis_W

I would like to add, in regard to deceiving people about the size, that there are somewhat standard ways tp measure the maturity of the plant. Since orchids can very wildly in mature size, you measure by how many years it will take to be old enough to bloom.

Im not a grower so i dont really know these numbers but ill take a educated guess. Perhaps the growers can correct me if im wrong.

Seedling-only a year or two old. May take from 2 to 10 years to bloom depending on species

NBS (near bloomong size) - the plant will be old enough to bloom in the next year or maybe two if you are pushing it.

BS (blooming size) - plants are mature enough to bloom now.

Specimen the plant is already impressive and capable of making multiple growths and flower spikes.

Division - this is a cut chunk of a mature plant which is large enough to grow. Usually from 2- 4 growths and often potted and rooted already. This one has the added bonus of being exactly the same as the parent plant so you know exactly what you are getting.

As to the time-to-blooming factor, keep in mind that culture affects that, as well.

A greenhouse grower in Hawaii, if getting the identical plant as a windowsill grower in Wisconsin, will get it to blooming years sooner. I think this is a source of a lot of disappointment in newer growers - the seller is (hopefully) describing their expectations in their growing environment, not the purchaser's.

[tmoney]

i think this is part of why i am fascinated by the orchid (and other commercial plant) world. the business side of things is a pretty whacky thing. i suppose all business is the same, in some ways.

i agree with ray in his previous statement about buying and selling not being either ethical or unethical. but the reality is that people run businesses, and so therefore are subject to the whims of humanity, which, to some extent, always includes some calculation of ethics.

i like to think that businesses do things that are in the best interest of the customer, since ultimately that is also in the best interest of the business. but...we all know that people sometimes do things in the interest of the bottom line. so, to come back to the point at hand, this blooming size marketing of product in the orchid world is a pretty handy mechanism. it protects the business, yet tries to provide some guidance to the customer. yet, it can be manipulated by the business (see several threads on this topic, just since i have been a member here), and also misunderstood by the customer.

so, here in i come to my prior conclusion, regardless of where we live in the world, it is on the customer to be informed and make intelligent decisions, yet also on the business to make every attempt at an on the level sale with the buyer. either one of these 2 fail and somebody is gonna feel burned

[MateoinLosAngeles]

There isn't anything unethical in reselling plants. As I said at the top, the re-seller might add a lot of value to the consumer: importing the plant, storing, browsing/perusing unique plants, offering competitive prices, additional information, and support, etc.

But there are deceiving business practices that make a business questionable.

To point out Ray's comment:

Originally Posted by Ray

I made it a point to say "recently acquired" in the listing.

This makes all the difference to me, and simply stating "recently acquired" is enough disclosure in my eyes. First Rays constantly discloses that they are a small "garage business" and are not here to rip the consumer off. Throughout the website, it's described that Ray is, of course, in the business of making money, but that FR is not a primary source of income, but rather a business that allows him to buy what he wants at bulk prices, then resale what he doesn't need. I understand the story, the expectations are clear, and I find the business respectable.

Making the story clear and accurate draws the line between ethical and unethical.

Other businesses do get to my skin. One of them being Repotme.com. For example, they relabel "Orchiata Bark" as "Monterey Pine Bark" to make it sound exclusive (after all, no one calls it like that). Then they sell it at $28.21 per gallon. Kelley's Korner sells Orchiata at $7.99/gallon, Fifth Season Gardening at $11.35/gallon, and Josh's Frogs at $10.99/gallon...

Their MSU fertilizer sells at $2/oz. Kelley's Korner starts at $0.33/oz for 25lb or is more expensive at $0.62/oz if you buy the 1lb box. Worth mentioning is that purchasing a 25lb bag of "K-Lite" from First Rays comes down to $0.30/oz when combined with their automatic volume discount plus their newsletter discount... AND it includes shipping...

Not trying to suggest that all businesses need to be a steal like Ray's... but at the same time, it can be irritating to see companies that seem solely dedicated to ripping people off by disguising their widely available products as "exclusives."

A final example: a company that I've enjoyed ordering from due to their reasonable prices is Hausermann. They resell the heck out of orchids, but they distinguish between those they grow themselves. My issue is when a seller is solely in the business of reselling but uses language that suggests all of their plants have been grown by them. To me, it seems intentionally deceiving, which might be legal but, in my opinion, not ethical.

Ultimately, it is up to the consumer to choose whether to do business with a company. But I think there's value in discussing how much "BS" a business can get away with, and whether a consumer should be obligated to price hunt like this, or whether a company should offer a realistic representation of their products in the first place.

[Fairorchids]

There are multiple facets to the original post.

• When a reseller buys from what I call a production nursery, he/she typically has to buy minimum 36 plants in order to qualify for the wholesale price (which might be $9, but could be anywhere between $6 and $16. Add to this paying for packing material and shipping, and in many cases having to go to the local FedEx terminal to collect the shipment.
• The plants may or may not be uniform in size/quality. Selling some right away is of course the goal of the reseller, but some might never sell (if damaged in shipping or by customers at a show, or simply weaker plants that go downhill over time).
• Combining the two previous points, the reseller sets a price. If the original cost was $9 prior to shipping costs, allowing for overhead, in a normal business model the retail price on the mainland should be in $27-36 range for a good quality plant.

As to overhead, consider that the cost of fertilizer more than doubled from 2021 to 2022, and many pot sizes suddenly have 9-18 month lead time (due to international logistics issues). Cost of energy (& gasoline) has bounced up and down. Spaghnum is imppossible to get (if you can, cost has trippled!), charcoal & perlite is difficult to get, etc. On this background, the retail prices of orchids will go up (or the growers will all go out of business).

Next, many times what we buy from the production nurseries are young plants, which need another 1-3 years to bloom. Once the 'reseller' has taken care of that plant for 6, 12 or 18 months to bring it to a salable size, it should be considered locally grown.

Finally, there is the issue of: Sdlg, NBS, BS, Mature & Specimen descriptions.

Many Ebay sellers use the NBS & BS terms rather liberally; my only advice is to look very carefully at the photos. And, if you see multiple listings using the same plant photo, simply do not buy from that seller.

At shows, and in nurseries with retail hours, you get to see the plants in person, and ask questions of the seller. I can't speak for everyone else, but I usually provide two estimates, such as:
'In my greenhouse, I expect it to bloom in X months (years), but in a house environment it will take longer, probably Y months (years)'.