How to save a Dendrobium 'Samurai' (Sameri) - partly dying and new growth

[HiOrcDen]

Originally Posted by dbarron

Let me up front state this is an opinion. Too many people 'do things'. The plants know how to grow, stop trying to mess with them and just provide good conditions and let them do it. More plants die of 'over attention' than neglect.
Don't remove living healthy tissue, the plant will let it go when it's ready. Don't overthink it. Just provide good conditions (food, water, light, shelter) and let it do it.
No, the canes will not releaf, but they *may* flower if the conditions improve. Conditions should warrant healthy growth and leaf retention. You should have at least three or four growth cycle of leaves (general rule) providing photosynthesis. You have almost none. Either the plant was in poor condition when you bought it or it's deteriorated under your care.

That does not seem much like opinion, more a fact! haha

Well I have about 30 orchids, over a third came from this one seller. This and one other, from a different seller (on Etsy) have had issues. I would guess it wasn't my doing, as the substrates seemed in very bad shape when I repotted.

Plus some I bought from Etsy have super cheap moss, so perhaps I should put them in good moss to pre-empt any problems, especially if their moss is breaking down?

So the cane can flower directly without releafing, and without keiki paste?

[dbarron]

Yes, this is kinda why lots of people immediately unpot (if not repot) when they get a new plant, to check out the media and roots.

I've been on and off orchiding since I was in college and maybe high school (I don't remember), but you can develop a sense of 'orchid whispering' over time. In this case, your orchids give you clues to what they need, in the color and tone of the leaves, stems, and visible roots. But, I would say that it comes with quite a few years of experience. I think I only developed it since I retired (yes, that many years). But now my plants (and not just orchids) (within my ability to provide the conditions they require) are flourishing more than ever. I used to kill paphilopediums almost instantly (over watering and then dehydrating in reaction), but I have a tiny paph spiceranum that I acquired early last month actually producing a new leaf and visible increasing in size (I hadn't looked at paph for 10-15 years) and I wonder why I had problems back then.

An exercise I would recommend, is to order either a flask or seedling sized plants several years from blooming. Grow them, they should be quite cheap, and you'll either lose them quickly or start developing 'orchid-sense'. I ordered 8 young plants of various genera from Olympic Orchids in Jan 2019. The first of them flowered just recently and I'm very proud of it. I think it gave me quite a bit of insight into proper culture (and yes I lost one of the cooler growing oncidiums out of 8). The thing is that younger plants show signs of distress much quicker than an older established plant. This allows you to more closely (in time) figure out what you did wrong. Of course, that also means unless you're on top of it, they're gonna die if you're doing something wrong. But when they flower, you know it's all yours...your credit.

I tend to inspect my orchids fairly closely about once a week (which for many adult plants is about the watering cycle for my conditions), and the little ones get inspected at least twice that often (and watered usually about the same) because 1 1/2 inch pots (esp of spagnum which I favor for most very young plants) go from being saturated to crispy in two or three days time.

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by HiOrcDen

So the cane can flower directly without releafing, and without keiki paste?

A lot of Dendrobiums flower from bare canes... some only from bare canes, others from leafed and bare ones. If they are firm, they are very much alive. Especially with Dens, I don't remove old growths until they are totally light brown, crispy, desiccated. The firm ones, even leafless, are reserves for the plant. (Same is true of Epidendrum, Barkeria, Cymbidium, Cattleya, and lots of other genera)

[estación seca]

Antelopes want to be warm and moist all year. They should not dry completely. Your fall/winter/spring days and nights outside are too cool for them. Many of your spring/summer nights are also cooler than they prefer. I would keep this one in the warmest spot you have. I think your plant's problems derive from being too cool and not being watered often enough.

[HiOrcDen]

Originally Posted by dbarron

Yes, this is kinda why lots of people immediately unpot (if not repot) when they get a new plant, to check out the media and roots.

I've been on and off orchiding since I was in college and maybe high school (I don't remember), but you can develop a sense of 'orchid whispering' over time. In this case, your orchids give you clues to what they need, in the color and tone of the leaves, stems, and visible roots. But, I would say that it comes with quite a few years of experience. I think I only developed it since I retired (yes, that many years). But now my plants (and not just orchids) (within my ability to provide the conditions they require) are flourishing more than ever. I used to kill paphilopediums almost instantly (over watering and then dehydrating in reaction), but I have a tiny paph spiceranum that I acquired early last month actually producing a new leaf and visible increasing in size (I hadn't looked at paph for 10-15 years) and I wonder why I had problems back then.

An exercise I would recommend, is to order either a flask or seedling sized plants several years from blooming. Grow them, they should be quite cheap, and you'll either lose them quickly or start developing 'orchid-sense'. I ordered 8 young plants of various genera from Olympic Orchids in Jan 2019. The first of them flowered just recently and I'm very proud of it. I think it gave me quite a bit of insight into proper culture (and yes I lost one of the cooler growing oncidiums out of 8). The thing is that younger plants show signs of distress much quicker than an older established plant. This allows you to more closely (in time) figure out what you did wrong. Of course, that also means unless you're on top of it, they're gonna die if you're doing something wrong. But when they flower, you know it's all yours...your credit.

I tend to inspect my orchids fairly closely about once a week (which for many adult plants is about the watering cycle for my conditions), and the little ones get inspected at least twice that often (and watered usually about the same) because 1 1/2 inch pots (esp of spagnum which I favor for most very young plants) go from being saturated to crispy in two or three days time.

I appreciate the suggestion... sounds like a fascinating prospect, especially from flask

So would you recommend Olympic Orchids, as well as any other online dealers? (or live in/near Orange County CA)

I would like to develop this Orchid Sense. I sometimes get the sense that my orchids are giving off various encouraging scents when I am caring for them properly, sometimes from their fragrance, or loamy from their substrate. I hope that doesn't sound crazy! hah

Originally Posted by Roberta

A lot of Dendrobiums flower from bare canes... some only from bare canes, others from leafed and bare ones. If they are firm, they are very much alive. Especially with Dens, I don't remove old growths until they are totally light brown, crispy, desiccated. The firm ones, even leafless, are reserves for the plant. (Same is true of Epidendrum, Barkeria, Cymbidium, Cattleya, and lots of other genera)

Thank you again, I will keep this in mind!

Originally Posted by estación seca

Antelopes want to be warm and moist all year. They should not dry completely. Your fall/winter/spring days and nights outside are too cool for them. Many of your spring/summer nights are also cooler than they prefer. I would keep this one in the warmest spot you have. I think your plant's problems derive from being too cool and not being watered often enough.

I see. Well this fall it has not dropped below the high 50's yet. What would be a safe minimum, if they are used to being outside? I may have made mistakes with watering, I believe at first overwatering, and then trying to compensate. Also, with what I know of Bonsai trees and shrubs, when a plant is struggling, you give it some shade and keep the substrate moderately damp, not dry or fully watered. I prolly shouldn't have tried this with my orchid, right!?

[dbarron]

Well, Olympic Orchids has worked well for me, but you can get a flask if you want to go that far from many different places. Olympic Orchids are usually months or maybe a year from the flask, so stabilized from the trauma of coming out of flask and through the compot stages. Training wheels?

On a further thought after I posted this reply...maybe if you can find a compot (usually 4-6 plants) that might be a good starting place. Seedlings will exhibit variability and even though the same cross, they won't be absolutely identical. Depending on how ruthless you feel, you can try what I try outside with perennial plants trying to find the 'right' spot/conditions. You could separately pot the plants and observe how they perform under different conditions.

I would consider those temperatures (as long as it gets above 70 during the day) suitable for most antelopes I've grown. They don't see *that* fussy.

I'd say most likely a media/watering issue, though it's all related and everything affects everything else to some degree.

[estación seca]

In my opinion a range of 50-70 F / 10-21C is too cool for this sick plant. It's a primary hybrid of Den. antennatum and stratioites, two species from hot and humid tropical lowlands.

Dens go downhill quickly if not watered enough while pushing new growth. When new growths are withering the problem is usually not enough water.

[dbarron]

Originally Posted by estación seca

In my opinion a range of 50-70 F / 10-21C is too cool for this sick plant. It's a primary hybrid of Den. antennatum and stratioites, two species from hot and humid tropical lowlands.

Well, in fairness, mine aren't sick...so you may be right there