Shade House - to Purchase, or DIY Plans & Ideas

[HiOrcDen]

Originally Posted by Roberta

THere are LOTS of orchids that do just fine into the low 40's F . (Check out the Index of Plants on my website, to see what I grow outside. About 90% of my collection) Phals, however, are tropical orchids that need to grow warmer.

I don't really have a "shade house" ... I have structures made with conduit that cover most of my yard, with shadecloth over them, and also my patio, again just with shadecloth. So everything gets the afternoon breezes.(And whatever temperatures and humidity or lack thereof that nature provides, which are pretty much the same as yours) Along with hybrids, I have somewhere around 500-600 distinct species that I grow outside. I have a small (12' x 8' ) greenhouse for the few warm growers that I just HAD to have, or which followed me home. It is stuffed. The yard gives me much more space, so I mostly buy those orchids that tolerate cold. So many to choose from... I see no reason for any sides on the structure unless you need to shade from a particular horizontal direction. GH is a whole different game... lots more "moving parts" to control temperature (both heating and cooling) and air circulation and light. Do the easy stuff first - you live in an area where you can grow so many things with little effort or expense. So concentrate on those first.

If you want to see a sampling of outdoor growing species, check out the Blooming Species link in my signature line. The ones that grow in greenhouse are noted, the rest are grown outside in coastal southern California, by me and the other contributors. You'll get an idea of what is possible. (Nearly 4 years of blooming species, by month, nearly all outdoors in climate similar to yours)

Cool, thanks again! I can keep my pals outside for now. And even if I need to bring them in before I buy a greenhouse, I have a good number of lights for indoors.

I have finalized my plans for my shade structure (just covering two sides) and have got a few therefore final questions

So you've suggested zip ties for fastening. So will this hold the shade cloth grommet tight enough against the smooth pvc, without anything else?

Should I buy the nice, and pricey canopy sandbags, or could I just strap cheap sandbags. If so how would I do that. A big strap all around, and are there zip ties that long? If not what else could I use?

I am thinking I should get the shade cloth panels an inch greater each side, or total 1 inch down and across, not to have gaps due to space in the elbows, makes sense?

Do you use the maximum number of grommets with your shade cloth, from the place you recommended? (I'm buying from there)

Should I use something like gorilla glue to secure all joints? Can I use something like gorilla glue or double sided tape to glue cinder blocks end to end and shelving on top?

[estación seca]

Some people don't glue PVC in this application. It fits fairly snugly. Just slide the parts together. The tension of shade cloth strapped to it will help hold it together.

If you decide to glue it use regular PVC glue. You buy this at the same place you buy the pipe and fittings.

Be careful; the glue drips cannot be removed from things they land on. Be sure there is a large area of newspaper under you when using PVC cement. Clean the inside of the female end and outside of the male end with a clean rag. Use the brush inside the cement lid to coat the inside of the female end of the fitting with a very thin layer of cement. Move fast. Put down the brush. Now insert the male end to the female end and twist the pieces a little to achieve the final position. Work rapidly; once it sets you cannot change it.

[Roberta]

How are you going to use sandbags? Just for weight? Assuming that you have horizontal pieces along the bottom resting on the ground (which I think that you need for rigidity anyway) plain ol' sandbags, draped over those pieces should do the job. I no longer bother to get grommets on my shadecloth... they are always in the wrong place anyway. I just run zip ties through the shade cloth (where it is joined to the binding tape), wherever I want it. They hold just fine with friction if you pull them tight.

You can get 24 inch and 36 inch zip ties (white only I think). For most of what I need to do, the black ones 8 inch, 11 inch, and 14 inch are what I use. They last 2-4 years mostly, depending on how much sun they get, you'll by dong something different by the time that you need to replace them, anyway.

For the cinder blocks, they hold in place quite well... gravity and friction. (They are heavy and rough) Just plop the shelving on top.

After you build this, you'll see what you might want to do differently. My setup has been a learning curve, I see things that could be better, and improve on the next iteration.

[HiOrcDen]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Electrical Metal tubing should be the same as conduit... needs to be galvanized. Never heard of the former...
The big gotcha with the conduit structure is the tinkertoy fittings... HOme Depot doesn't sell them. I get them from a swap meet (the vendor's main customers are other swap meet vendors) Or get parts for canopy shelters that people use for cars and such. Becomes somewhat expensive since they're heavy and that runs up the shipping.
5 feet unsupported for PVC is too much if you are going to put any weight on it... for 1 inch PVC I'd limit it to no more than 3 feet unsupported.

This is an old message haha... what do you mean by 'unsupported', with respect to the 1" pvc?

When I start hanging plants, could I simply add more supports with the 1" pvc, if that's what you mean?

[Roberta]

Vertical support, also extra horizontals. Don't be stingy with materials... The pipe won't break, but it will tend to sag if the section is too long, especially if there is any weight on it. So you don't want long sections that aren't connected to another piece. If you plan to glue things in place, put it all together without glue first. Then you can make modifications easily. You will probably make multiple trips to Home Depot when you find yourself short of some fitting or other.

[HiOrcDen]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Vertical support, also extra horizontals. Don't be stingy with materials... The pipe won't break, but it will tend to sag if the section is too long, especially if there is any weight on it. So you don't want long sections that aren't connected to another piece. If you plan to glue things in place, put it all together without glue first. Then you can make modifications easily. You will probably make multiple trips to Home Depot when you find yourself short of some fitting or other.

Okay, got it! Well I was wondering if wrapping joints with gorilla tape (one sided) can work as well as glue, while being able to remove it.

Also a question I'm trying to wrap my head around lol... if I were to go with 1.5" pvc, might that tweak the dimensions so that pieces wouldn't quite fit properly?

[Roberta]

If you press the parts together well, plain friction will hold them. You don't need tape. A mallet might be a useful tool... just a well placed tap will work well. 1.5 inch is pretty big, 1 inch is a lot easier to work with. And probably easier to find the range of fittings that you want since it is a very popular size.

Another reason for not going to 1.5 inch... if you do decide to hang things, most standard hangers aren't that big. 1 inch will work better.

[HiOrcDen]

So I'm wondering, even if torrential winds won't knock the structure over, because of the sandbags, won't they possibly pull apart at the joints? That's why I was considering the gorilla tape (one sided)

Also, is it fine to use a 10 foot pipe cut in half, as it will not have all smooth ends?

[Roberta]

If you cut PVC pipe with the little pipe cutter designed for the purpose (not expensive) the ends will be smooth and straight. Works almost like a scissors. Another reason to not go larger than 1 inch... if you have bigger pipe, you'll need a bigger (and more expensive) cutter. Don't use a saw... any burrs will make it not fit the parts. As far as the tape thing goes, how were you planning to use it? might work. See how it all goes together - you may end up gluing.

OH, also not the the pipe may come in two different types - you want the one with the thick walls. (SCH 40 I think it's called)

[HiOrcDen]

Originally Posted by Roberta

If you cut PVC pipe with the little pipe cutter designed for the purpose (not expensive) the ends will be smooth and straight. Works almost like a scissors. Another reason to not go larger than 1 inch... if you have bigger pipe, you'll need a bigger (and more expensive) cutter. Don't use a saw... any burrs will make it not fit the parts. As far as the tape thing goes, how were you planning to use it? might work. See how it all goes together - you may end up gluing.

OH, also not the the pipe may come in two different types - you want the one with the thick walls. (SCH 40 I think it's called)

Cool, thanks! As for a cutter, I'm also looking into Home Depot doing the cuts for me. I bought everything from there, for two structures, so they better! (jk)

Yes I've got the schedule 40 pvc...

---------- Post added at 06:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Roberta

If you cut PVC pipe with the little pipe cutter designed for the purpose (not expensive) the ends will be smooth and straight. Works almost like a scissors. Another reason to not go larger than 1 inch... if you have bigger pipe, you'll need a bigger (and more expensive) cutter. Don't use a saw... any burrs will make it not fit the parts. As far as the tape thing goes, how were you planning to use it? might work. See how it all goes together - you may end up gluing.

OH, also not the the pipe may come in two different types - you want the one with the thick walls. (SCH 40 I think it's called)

I would like to thank everyone so much for the suggestions and references on this thread! I've purchased everything for the structure, and waiting to hear from the Shade Cloth company.

I'm doing 2, two sided structures. I have an alternate idea. If both structures are facing south, with shade on the west side, one 40% and one 60%, I'm thinking I can put them right next to each other, with the 60% on the east side. Then I would put 30% cloth between them, so perhaps towards late afternoon the 60% house would partly be receiving 70% shade, if that is correct. I could put my Phals and other low light plants so that in the high light of late afternoon, they would be getting 70%. I've read that Phals can do well a few hours at 60%, which is how I imagine it would work, passing over to 70% in the heat. Would this be a good plan? Or should I stagger them apart, and count on shade for the Phals?