Shade House - to Purchase, or DIY Plans & Ideas

[HiOrcDen]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Have you defined what you want the structure to actually do? If just provide shade, then you only need to have the structure to support shadecloth (and what you need depends on what else is around - trees, house, wall or fence) and how it is oriented to the sun's path. If you want to provide temperature control, then you get into enclosure scenarios. But once you start enclosing the space, you need to be concerned with air flow, how to cool in summer (the "greenhouse effect" can make an enclosed space very hot) What plants are you preparing this for? So, you need to work backward from the set of conditions that you are trying to establish, various approaches to "HOW" will suggest themselves once you have determined WHAT you are seeking, and WHEN (summer? winter? Both?).

Living in coastal southern California, the starting point is to utilize, as much as possible, the perfect airflow that Mother Nature provides. If you must do something to obstruct that, how will you replace that function? I have a friend who lives a bit south of me, a superb backyard orchid grower, who sums it up, as "Add water, subtract sunlight, and the rest takes care of itself"

Well that makes sense. As you guys helped me determine earlier, all my current plants are okay outside, some all year and a few most of the year. Though, won't a whole shade house, as opposed to single sided structure, retain greater humidity during hot, dry months?

Hmm okay... so I'm not certain whether a single side will shade all day, because in Summer the sun will rise east, and cross south and then to the northwest sky. And we have no shade in the backyard. Direct light starts in late morning.

And I am thinking that when I start buying Phals and other sensitive species, I will get a small greenhouse, with temp and humidity control, hopefully a short term yearly home for others that won't stay outside all year..

So with the shade cloth structure, I would like to keep the rest of those plants outside year round. So in that case, do I even want temperature control? And what is the drawback? As you mentioned, when would I want temperature control? And how will I maintain humidity if allowing open sided air flow? I'm a little confused. So please, modeling after your own approach, and considering my answer here, let me know what approach would you take?!

[Roberta]

Humidity comes from Mother Nature... or not. When those hot dry winds blow, water more. (Add shade if you cam) Even mounted delicate little Pleurothallids can put up with a lot. What we have going for us is the cooling in the evenings. In hot weather, water in the evening so that the plants have more hours to soak it up. But that hard cuticle on the tops of leaves (the same thing that makes foliar feeding useless) keeps the plants from desiccating during the day. (Even in the rain forest it doesn't rain constantly - epiphytes have to be able to protect themselves when the rain stops. ) Usually my RH during the warm part of the day is in the 40-50% range, going to 70-80% at night. But during those hot dry episodes, it can be 10% during the day and only recovering to maybe 40 % at night. At such times, water more. Shhh, I won't tell. Low flow hose nozzle , set on "mist" can hydrate and cool your plants without using a lot of volume.

You will hear a lot of "water only in the morning". This is good advice when it gets cold at night. Cold-and-wet can lead easily to rot. But in the tropics, it rains late in the day. Mother Nature doesn't read the books - or the 'net. How does she get away with this blasphemy? In the tropics it is WARM in the evening. The lesson... when it is warm in the evening (above about 65 deg F/18 deg C) it's safe to water at that time, and even beneficial because the plants have more time to absorb and sequester the water before it evaporates.

[HiOrcDen]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Humidity comes from Mother Nature... or not. When those hot dry winds blow, water more. (Add shade if you cam) Even mounted delicate little Pleurothallids can put up with a lot. What we have going for us is the cooling in the evenings. In hot weather, water in the evening so that the plants have more hours to soak it up. But that hard cuticle on the tops of leaves (the same thing that makes foliar feeding useless) keeps the plants from desiccating during the day. (Even in the rain forest it doesn't rain constantly - epiphytes have to be able to protect themselves when the rain stops. ) Usually my RH during the warm part of the day is in the 40-50% range, going to 70-80% at night. But during those hot dry episodes, it can be 10% during the day and only recovering to maybe 40 % at night. At such times, water more. Shhh, I won't tell. Low flow hose nozzle , set on "mist" can hydrate and cool your plants without using a lot of volume.

You will hear a lot of "water only in the morning". This is good advice when it gets cold at night. Cold-and-wet can lead easily to rot. But in the tropics, it rains late in the day. Mother Nature doesn't read the books - or the 'net. How does she get away with this blasphemy? In the tropics it is WARM in the evening. The lesson... when it is warm in the evening (above about 65 deg F/18 deg C) it's safe to water at that time, and even beneficial because the plants have more time to absorb and sequester the water before it evaporates.

Okay, I'm learning these important concepts, based upon nature! So if the outdoor temps are fine for the specific plants, then is a single sided shade cloth structure a better choice? (Might need one more side shaded for later day sun)

As you said an enclosed structure is for temp control, then for plants that need controlled conditions, especially Phals, I would use a small greenhouse with artificial temp and humidity control?..

[estación seca]

It will be far easier and cheaper to grow Phals in your house than to build a greenhouse, even if you decide to use a humidifier or heat mats. Your fall-winter days are long enough they should flower with window light.

Start with orchids very easy for you to grow with simple adjustments and then branch out once you have a good idea how they grow. Putting up a shade cloth outside should be relatively easy.

[HiOrcDen]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Humidity comes from Mother Nature... or not. When those hot dry winds blow, water more. (Add shade if you cam) Even mounted delicate little Pleurothallids can put up with a lot. What we have going for us is the cooling in the evenings. In hot weather, water in the evening so that the plants have more hours to soak it up. But that hard cuticle on the tops of leaves (the same thing that makes foliar feeding useless) keeps the plants from desiccating during the day. (Even in the rain forest it doesn't rain constantly - epiphytes have to be able to protect themselves when the rain stops. ) Usually my RH during the warm part of the day is in the 40-50% range, going to 70-80% at night. But during those hot dry episodes, it can be 10% during the day and only recovering to maybe 40 % at night. At such times, water more. Shhh, I won't tell. Low flow hose nozzle , set on "mist" can hydrate and cool your plants without using a lot of volume.

You will hear a lot of "water only in the morning". This is good advice when it gets cold at night. Cold-and-wet can lead easily to rot. But in the tropics, it rains late in the day. Mother Nature doesn't read the books - or the 'net. How does she get away with this blasphemy? In the tropics it is WARM in the evening. The lesson... when it is warm in the evening (above about 65 deg F/18 deg C) it's safe to water at that time, and even beneficial because the plants have more time to absorb and sequester the water before it evaporates.

I also recall that you told me it may be possible to get away with keeping a Phal outside all year, in a moderate climate like ours. I believe you stated keeping it near a wall to absorb its heat at night may work...

Originally Posted by estación seca

It will be far easier and cheaper to grow Phals in your house than to build a greenhouse, even if you decide to use a humidifier or heat mats. Your fall-winter days are long enough they should flower with window light.

Start with orchids very easy for you to grow with simple adjustments and then branch out once you have a good idea how they grow. Putting up a shade cloth outside should be relatively easy.

Right, I'm considering the best approach to take. I have read that hours of sun per day are important, in which case I would do best to build a self standing structure, as hanging cloth below our balcony will only allow sun for less than half the day.

Although we have a lot of west facing windows and glass doors, there are not really windowsills to use, and the windows are blocked to the south by the house's structure. I think I will keep the Phals outside as much as possible, bring them in if necessary. Eventually I think it would be worthwhile to buy or build a couple, few hundred dollar greenhouse, perhaps sometime in the relatively near future. If I have a good number of Phals, would that not be worth it?

[Roberta]

I know people who get away with growing Phals outside all year, if they have the microclimates to do it. I have not done it. I've always grown Phals either in the house or greenhouse. Phal hybrids will tolerate (but not like) 55 deg F, species even less tolerant. And in winter it gets a lot colder. Maybe experiment on something cheap that you don't care about.

[HiOrcDen]

Originally Posted by Roberta

I know people who get away with growing Phals outside all year, if they have the microclimates to do it. I have not done it. I've always grown Phals either in the house or greenhouse. Phal hybrids will tolerate (but not like) 55 deg F, species even less tolerant. And in winter it gets a lot colder. Maybe experiment on something cheap that you don't care about.

Okay, got it! Well in my area it may get as low as the low 40's on occasion, so I guess I'll certainly need to bring Phals in, or else purchase a small greenhouse Just to refresh my memory, is it not possible for certain species to do okay down to the low 40;s range?

So from what we've discussed, will a single sided structure work better than a four walled shade house? I get that impression. I'm curious whether you guys use a shade house (not greenhouse) in which case why you use it, what plants you use it for?

[Roberta]

THere are LOTS of orchids that do just fine into the low 40's F . (Check out the Index of Plants on my website, to see what I grow outside. About 90% of my collection) Phals, however, are tropical orchids that need to grow warmer.

I don't really have a "shade house" ... I have structures made with conduit that cover most of my yard, with shadecloth over them, and also my patio, again just with shadecloth. So everything gets the afternoon breezes.(And whatever temperatures and humidity or lack thereof that nature provides, which are pretty much the same as yours) Along with hybrids, I have somewhere around 500-600 distinct species that I grow outside. I have a small (12' x 8' ) greenhouse for the few warm growers that I just HAD to have, or which followed me home. It is stuffed. The yard gives me much more space, so I mostly buy those orchids that tolerate cold. So many to choose from... I see no reason for any sides on the structure unless you need to shade from a particular horizontal direction. GH is a whole different game... lots more "moving parts" to control temperature (both heating and cooling) and air circulation and light. Do the easy stuff first - you live in an area where you can grow so many things with little effort or expense. So concentrate on those first.

If you want to see a sampling of outdoor growing species, check out the Blooming Species link in my signature line. The ones that grow in greenhouse are noted, the rest are grown outside in coastal southern California, by me and the other contributors. You'll get an idea of what is possible. (Nearly 4 years of blooming species, by month, nearly all outdoors in climate similar to yours)

[HiOrcDen]

Originally Posted by Roberta

For starters, I have used Home Depot shelving set on cinder blocks. (They eventually rust, but good for several years, cheap and easy)

As far as drips go... I know that in a perfect world I shouldn't let that happen. However, I have 'way too many orchids to give each its own real estate. At least up to now, have not had any problem with disease spreading. And growing areas both in GH and outside are pretty dense. Sometimes "imperfect" works anyway.

All the shelving I have found on Home Depot is pretty pricey... is there a particular search term or brand I should use to search?

And thanks for the info!

EDIT: I found cheap shelving, also cinder blocks, which are surprisingly dirt cheap haha! but the blocks are only 18" tall at most. Can you maybe glue two together end to end, and glue on the shelving?

[Roberta]

Cinder blocks are heavy and stack with good stability. So I can stack two vertically - and another two right next to it, for better stability. Looked around the yard, mostly I just use one on end... don't really need more height. They don't need to be high, just get the shelves off the ground. Those cheap shelves just sit on top of the cinder blocks. (They come in lengths of 4 ft or 6 ft, widths of 12 in and 18 in, so take your choice. IF you need a 3 ft shelf, by a 6 and they can cut it into to 3's with a big wire cutter, at least at my Home Depot they do) No need to fasten them in place, the weight of the plants will do the job fine. You can put it with the lip of the shelf over the edge of the cinder blocks, looks nice and certainly won't go anywhere, or flip it over and use the lip to keep plants from gong over the edge. Your choice.