phaleanopsis root growth

[tedro]

i really don’t like what’s “not” happening

i took her out and did some chopping.
but i think the rot is in or near the top quarter of the core.

here are some photos of what i just did.

about 10 photos would not upload something about a security token so here’s a link to the pictures:
root rot repot etc - Google Photos


I put a bunch of rocks that I had for my bamboo in the bottom the sphagnum that you see is very little only on top.
after bottom rocks > bark type balls, etc > then some sphagnum. I lost an aerial route and I tried to get the other ones into the medium plant had 2 good roots, I noticed those roots originated high on the core. Maybe I should’ve cut the core off below those.

It looks to me like the right or the disease or whatever it is it’s probably into the crown or the upper core I don’t know the proper term analogy but I’m dividing the core into quadrants I guess up and down. If you look very carefully you can see little black around where is some roots had tried to grow very slight. And may be a little bit around the roots that are growing. I noticed that when I pulled out some of the black that left kind of a cup like hole.

if you can see it in pics, one dark root, but somewhat firm, plump, i pulled at and ripped — see the bare greeness? what will happen to that? just curious.

so, what i cut off will ? make little difference, the problem is already higher. cleaning it up, removing those small core wrapped pieces of dried old gone leaves, etc, will help, but not cure … not by a long shot.

i also think the underneath lowest leaf is showing signs of stress. amazing it made it this long, i think, all of it.

probably have totally serious chop as much as plantly possible to attempt a rare crown core (plant) save. ?

i’d need that root nutrient probably. when i used to clone plants i cut and dusted with root-tone. then used clear plastic wrap as roof until signs of growth. idk.

I removed a lot of the leftover from all the leaves and anything else I could. Those things were definitely probably holding moisture.

I think she’s probably done for but I’ll keep working with it.

i think i shoulda spot sprayed the black spots with 50/50 water and 3% hydrogen peroxide — seen that a bunch on youtube.

if you can tell on those today pics, sorry i shoulda made effort for this: leaves are making black rear boarders/margins. top too. easier to see from back.

also, i think the VERY FIRST sign i shoulda adjusted for was/is leaf tip curl. but, afaik, with totally other type plants, leaf curl is usually over feeding.

i had two years plus of super blooming, extra blooming both times, too. 100 flowers or more, all together. one spike.
so, maybe it’s just in the genes to die off now.
i must say, this spike is just POW. loaded with nascent buds. too bad. pretty sure i messed it up during/after last spike blooming.

thanks

ps. if this is an empathic plant, it’s mirroring me (medically), i’m afraid.

pps. i am baffled by what happened after 2 years and 3 profuse bloomings. indeed, my original repot had lots of roots. but looking closer at those old pics, some more should have been clipped at that time. see: Shared album - Ted Rogers (ichi) - Google Photos

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by tedro

Maybe I should’ve cut the core off below those.

Do not cut the "core," ever. That's not something the plant can replace. In all of these photos, I haven't seen any rot in the crown. Or any real disease for that matter! Do you have a photo of that?

Originally Posted by tedro

i think i shoulda spot sprayed the black spots with 50/50 water and 3% hydrogen peroxide — seen that a bunch on youtube.

No need for this. It will do nothing for you plant. Check out this thread: SaraJean asked a question about peroxide...

I'd recommend cutting that spike off to save the plant. A plant with such a small root system can't support flowers and may end up blooming itself to death.

[tedro]

Originally Posted by isurus79

Do not cut the "core," ever. That's not something the plant can replace. In all of these photos, I haven't seen any rot in the crown. Or any real disease for that matter! Do you have a photo of that?




No need for this. It will do nothing for you plant. Check out this thread: SaraJean asked a question about peroxide...

I'd recommend cutting that spike off to save the plant. A plant with such a small root system can't support flowers and may end up blooming itself to death.

is this what mean by cutting the core?
define where the core begins and ends, please.

How to save a Phalaenopsis orchid with no (or with few) roots plus cutting the stem - YouTube start st 2:49

(yes, there is no visible crown rot. maybe inside the upper core.)

after cutting the spike how would you save it?
fyi, i live in moldy cool conditions.

whether or not the black rot on my roots and core much of which has been stripped away the last time I did this, look here: roots/core - Google Photos
do you see any “disease” in those pics? how would you describe it?

But whether or not that is “disease” I have no idea I may have use the word “diseased” for effect in some earlier post.
thanks 🙏

ps. afa H202 goes, i read this in your provided link:
“3% H2O2 is basically worthless as a disinfectant. The stabilizer in it is so weak that it completely decomposes within seconds of application, leaving behind a pool of water in which pathogens can multiply. Does it damage the few root hairs orchids have? Maybe, but I doubt it's significant due to the transient nature of the peroxide.”

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by tedro

after cutting the spike how would you save it?
fyi, i live in moldy cool conditions.

The spike will get thrown away, but the plant can be potted up in your preferred media. It looks like much of the problem came from overwatering.

Originally Posted by tedro

whether or not the black rot on my roots and core much of which has been stripped away the last time I did this, look here: roots/core - Google Photos
do you see any “disease” in those pics? how would you describe it?

Ah, this is much more helpful! Yes, it looks like the there was some dieback or even rot on the bottom of the plant. Was it buried or do you think there was simply too much moisture around the roots?

Originally Posted by tedro

ps. afa H202 goes, i read this in your provided link:
“3% H2O2 is basically worthless as a disinfectant. The stabilizer in it is so weak that it completely decomposes within seconds of application, leaving behind a pool of water in which pathogens can multiply. Does it damage the few root hairs orchids have? Maybe, but I doubt it's significant due to the transient nature of the peroxide.”

Yep, that's definitely the take home message!

---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------

Originally Posted by tedro

cut the spike close to the core? as close as possible, an inch out?

i don’t know that there will be another root system.

Yes, cut the spike close to the plant. The plant will have to build a root system back!

---------- Post added at 02:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:28 PM ----------

Originally Posted by K-Sci

A picture is worth 1000 words. The attached photo is a C. intermedia that, as an experiment, received weekly doses of KelpMax rather than the label frequency, which is monthly. This plant was "potted" in the basket in August. All flour sides of the basket and the bottom are covered with roots, and the previously 1-lead plant now has three leads.

I strongly recommend against using more KelpMax than the labeled dose because overdosing also resulted in some undesirable side effects. Along with the multiple new leads and strong root growth the growths on most of the plants in the testing was stunted (these are visible in the photo) and some growths didn't produce sheaths. It appears that the overdosed plants didn't have enough biological machinery to support so much new growth at the same time.

The conclusion I draw from the experiment is that KelpMax used per the directions will promote new grow, branching of leads, and increase root growth, which is what I saw on the plants that were given weekly doses. I have not seen the stunting on plants given the labeled dose.

-Keith

Definitely a good looking plant!

[tedro]

Originally Posted by isurus79

The spike will get thrown away, but the plant can be potted up in your preferred media. It looks like much of the problem came from overwatering.



Ah, this is much more helpful! Yes, it looks like the there was some dieback or even rot on the bottom of the plant. Was it buried or do you think there was simply too much moisture around the roots?




Yep, that's definitely the take home message!

---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------



Yes, cut the spike close to the plant. The plant will have to build a root system back!

---------- Post added at 02:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:28 PM ----------



Definitely a good looking plant!

omgosh I wrote a long reply to this and apparently not being logged in and made it disappear I’ll try to read it again later.

rather, i’ll try to keep going now using a microphone dictation I guess you call it:

to the question about was it buried or just too much moisture:
Both. It was partially buried. And this is where I had a long response about new media and I think the new media stunk, etc etc. wow. i’m never going to get as good as a reply as I had just written. Moving on

as far as the hydrogen peroxide my reading of what I quoted was maybe it helps maybe it doesn’t. And then I wrote about how I know about pooling or standing water on the plant or on any plant that’s super evil and I had another great paragraph there that I’m not gonna be able to repeat here. Moving on

As far as what I’m going to do now… I may just let her go… If the spike starts to die back on its own and maybe I’ll do something else. And another paragraph that I can’t repeat.

i’m sorry but the above is not at all representative of what I had written, ouch. there were pertinent details in each category. Par for bad day! ending a bad week!

ps. heat, i think is some weird way the difference, or that, the medium isn’t drying out like it used to. that’s mostly what happened, i bed. slightly cool makes it retain moisture far/exponentially longer. …anyone got the math in that?

thanks,

[isurus79]

Sorry about you losing your last post! I hate it when happens. I certainly get the gist of what you were saying.

Originally Posted by tedro

As far as what I’m going to do now… I may just let her go… If the spike starts to die back on its own and maybe I’ll do something else.

I think there's the thought among a lot of people that you need to save each and every plant that has taken a nose dive. Tossing a plant that is far gone is a better approach, in my opinion, so letting yours go might be the best bet. It just frees up space for something new and vigorous!

[tedro]

Originally Posted by isurus79

I'd recommend cutting that spike off to save the plant. A plant with such a small root system can't support flowers and may end up blooming itself to death.

cut the spike close to the core? as close as possible, an inch out?

i don’t know that there will be another root system.

[Shadeflower]

Hey tedro, I can see the area you were concerned about.

it's happened to me too. I can never tell myself if it is collar rot or what I call stem rot (opposite end of crown rot)

Usually I just remove dead roots and let the stem dry.

But just this week I had my angraecum compactum give up the ghost. Bought it 2 years ago. In that time every new root it has attampted to grow would then be gobbled up by a slow spreading blackness.

I wish I had done something sooner, by now it only has 3 tiny leaves left on a black stump.

I meant to get myself some copper or fungicide treatment. I can't tell if you have the same.