phaleanopsis root growth

[tedro]

Originally Posted by isurus79

Do not cut the "core," ever. That's not something the plant can replace. In all of these photos, I haven't seen any rot in the crown. Or any real disease for that matter! Do you have a photo of that?




No need for this. It will do nothing for you plant. Check out this thread: SaraJean asked a question about peroxide...

I'd recommend cutting that spike off to save the plant. A plant with such a small root system can't support flowers and may end up blooming itself to death.

is this what mean by cutting the core?
define where the core begins and ends, please.

How to save a Phalaenopsis orchid with no (or with few) roots plus cutting the stem - YouTube start st 2:49

(yes, there is no visible crown rot. maybe inside the upper core.)

after cutting the spike how would you save it?
fyi, i live in moldy cool conditions.

whether or not the black rot on my roots and core much of which has been stripped away the last time I did this, look here: roots/core - Google Photos
do you see any “disease” in those pics? how would you describe it?

But whether or not that is “disease” I have no idea I may have use the word “diseased” for effect in some earlier post.
thanks 🙏

ps. afa H202 goes, i read this in your provided link:
“3% H2O2 is basically worthless as a disinfectant. The stabilizer in it is so weak that it completely decomposes within seconds of application, leaving behind a pool of water in which pathogens can multiply. Does it damage the few root hairs orchids have? Maybe, but I doubt it's significant due to the transient nature of the peroxide.”

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by tedro

after cutting the spike how would you save it?
fyi, i live in moldy cool conditions.

The spike will get thrown away, but the plant can be potted up in your preferred media. It looks like much of the problem came from overwatering.

Originally Posted by tedro

whether or not the black rot on my roots and core much of which has been stripped away the last time I did this, look here: roots/core - Google Photos
do you see any “disease” in those pics? how would you describe it?

Ah, this is much more helpful! Yes, it looks like the there was some dieback or even rot on the bottom of the plant. Was it buried or do you think there was simply too much moisture around the roots?

Originally Posted by tedro

ps. afa H202 goes, i read this in your provided link:
“3% H2O2 is basically worthless as a disinfectant. The stabilizer in it is so weak that it completely decomposes within seconds of application, leaving behind a pool of water in which pathogens can multiply. Does it damage the few root hairs orchids have? Maybe, but I doubt it's significant due to the transient nature of the peroxide.”

Yep, that's definitely the take home message!

---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------

Originally Posted by tedro

cut the spike close to the core? as close as possible, an inch out?

i don’t know that there will be another root system.

Yes, cut the spike close to the plant. The plant will have to build a root system back!

---------- Post added at 02:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:28 PM ----------

Originally Posted by K-Sci

A picture is worth 1000 words. The attached photo is a C. intermedia that, as an experiment, received weekly doses of KelpMax rather than the label frequency, which is monthly. This plant was "potted" in the basket in August. All flour sides of the basket and the bottom are covered with roots, and the previously 1-lead plant now has three leads.

I strongly recommend against using more KelpMax than the labeled dose because overdosing also resulted in some undesirable side effects. Along with the multiple new leads and strong root growth the growths on most of the plants in the testing was stunted (these are visible in the photo) and some growths didn't produce sheaths. It appears that the overdosed plants didn't have enough biological machinery to support so much new growth at the same time.

The conclusion I draw from the experiment is that KelpMax used per the directions will promote new grow, branching of leads, and increase root growth, which is what I saw on the plants that were given weekly doses. I have not seen the stunting on plants given the labeled dose.

-Keith

Definitely a good looking plant!

[tedro]

Originally Posted by isurus79

The spike will get thrown away, but the plant can be potted up in your preferred media. It looks like much of the problem came from overwatering.



Ah, this is much more helpful! Yes, it looks like the there was some dieback or even rot on the bottom of the plant. Was it buried or do you think there was simply too much moisture around the roots?




Yep, that's definitely the take home message!

---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------



Yes, cut the spike close to the plant. The plant will have to build a root system back!

---------- Post added at 02:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:28 PM ----------



Definitely a good looking plant!

omgosh I wrote a long reply to this and apparently not being logged in and made it disappear I’ll try to read it again later.

rather, i’ll try to keep going now using a microphone dictation I guess you call it:

to the question about was it buried or just too much moisture:
Both. It was partially buried. And this is where I had a long response about new media and I think the new media stunk, etc etc. wow. i’m never going to get as good as a reply as I had just written. Moving on

as far as the hydrogen peroxide my reading of what I quoted was maybe it helps maybe it doesn’t. And then I wrote about how I know about pooling or standing water on the plant or on any plant that’s super evil and I had another great paragraph there that I’m not gonna be able to repeat here. Moving on

As far as what I’m going to do now… I may just let her go… If the spike starts to die back on its own and maybe I’ll do something else. And another paragraph that I can’t repeat.

i’m sorry but the above is not at all representative of what I had written, ouch. there were pertinent details in each category. Par for bad day! ending a bad week!

ps. heat, i think is some weird way the difference, or that, the medium isn’t drying out like it used to. that’s mostly what happened, i bed. slightly cool makes it retain moisture far/exponentially longer. …anyone got the math in that?

thanks,

[tedro]

Originally Posted by isurus79

I'd recommend cutting that spike off to save the plant. A plant with such a small root system can't support flowers and may end up blooming itself to death.

cut the spike close to the core? as close as possible, an inch out?

i don’t know that there will be another root system.

[Shadeflower]

Hey tedro, I can see the area you were concerned about.

it's happened to me too. I can never tell myself if it is collar rot or what I call stem rot (opposite end of crown rot)

Usually I just remove dead roots and let the stem dry.

But just this week I had my angraecum compactum give up the ghost. Bought it 2 years ago. In that time every new root it has attampted to grow would then be gobbled up by a slow spreading blackness.

I wish I had done something sooner, by now it only has 3 tiny leaves left on a black stump.

I meant to get myself some copper or fungicide treatment. I can't tell if you have the same.

[tedro]

place your bets. we’re going to make it.

[Shadeflower]

Tedro, I do feel for you but I think you are trying to do too much like keep unpotting it.
I still like to use peroxide because it's so cheap. I wouldn't use it on a healthy orchid but as I have been discovering watching youtube video's recently even the proper copper treatment can be lethal to roots too. Doing nothing usually results in the death of the orchid anyway. So I can understand the desire to use peroxide.. I mean I probably have set orchids back using it but the only reason to use it because an orchid is already set back. I don't think peroxide has ever led to the death of an orchid at mine. Getting set back probably but at least not dead. I wouldn't turn around and say peroxide has miraculously saved every orchid I've used it on but I have had recoveries using it.
I wouldn't recommend using it. But I will say I do still use it at times. Mostly I dilute it down a bit more with water. You will know if it is working and whether you had a problem if the peroxide starts fizzing within 10 seconds of getting on the affected stem. Whether it truly fixes the problem I doubt.

In this case I personally would not even use any. But it all depends on how the plant is doing. If I feel like something is spreading up the stem like I mentioned happening with my angraecum that shows there is an active infection. Like I mentioned sometimes you can stop it spreading just potting the orchid a bit higher and keeping the stem dry.

It's a tricky matter as each case varies. I still think you should leave the stem for now.

Cut the spike if you must, I think it's a huge shame but it will conserve energy..

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

Tedro, I do feel for you but I think you are trying to do too much like keep unpotting it.

True ...... we have to be careful about over-doing things. Eg. when the orchid has been treated - such as stem and leaves (but usually better not put copper solution on roots) ----- the plant then needs a good environment - to hopefully recover. Pulling it out again to check on it, and doing too much surgery etc ..... can significantly reduce chances of surviving --- for the plant that is.

[tedro]

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

Tedro, I do feel for you but I think you are trying to do too much like keep unpotting it.
I still like to use peroxide because it's so cheap. I wouldn't use it on a healthy orchid but as I have been discovering watching youtube video's recently even the proper copper treatment can be lethal to roots too. Doing nothing usually results in the death of the orchid anyway. So I can understand the desire to use peroxide.. I mean I probably have set orchids back using it but the only reason to use it because an orchid is already set back. I don't think peroxide has ever led to the death of an orchid at mine. Getting set back probably but at least not dead. I wouldn't turn around and say peroxide has miraculously saved every orchid I've used it on but I have had recoveries using it.
I wouldn't recommend using it. But I will say I do still use it at times. Mostly I dilute it down a bit more with water. You will know if it is working and whether you had a problem if the peroxide starts fizzing within 10 seconds of getting on the affected stem. Whether it truly fixes the problem I doubt.

In this case I personally would not even use any. But it all depends on how the plant is doing. If I feel like something is spreading up the stem like I mentioned happening with my angraecum that shows there is an active infection. Like I mentioned sometimes you can stop it spreading just potting the orchid a bit higher and keeping the stem dry.

It's a tricky matter as each case varies. I still think you should leave the stem for now.

Cut the spike if you must, I think it's a huge shame but it will conserve energy..

i used peroxide the first time. but it (3%) was heavily water diluted; i maybe slightly spayed, but mostly — which wasn’t much — i used a q-tip.

we seem to be doing fine.
flowers soon, buds growing. leaves sturdy, good color.
infact, i’m a bit stunned at the effects of me cutting off the end of that one leaf and putting cinnamon on the edge. I have always used cinnamon on every plant I cut. But that leaf simply looks perfect it’s still completely green all the way to the edge of where I cut it. The weather has warmed up I think a lot of my problem was the temperature change because I changed my sleeping pattern and I like to sleep in very cold. So all during the phal’s daytime (7-7) i am alseep until 3-4pm, when i wake is when it’s coldest. then i turn it off. however, i’ve been trying to sleep warmer… i think it helped rather immediately.

we’ll see.

no more repotting or cutting unless she starts dying back… not gonna happen! we’re gonna flower profusely with what we’ve got, then we’ve going straight to making roots! just as we are, no changes.

[tedro]

i had just taken and posted this 1st bloom pic.
looking at it afterward, i see the dead end or rather i think it’s not the spike end but a bud that …. well i don’t know. died, yes. but looks black, feels soft and i’m going to now (not shown) pull it off.

hope we’re ok. hoping this is from previous stress that has calmed.

the rest of the tips look good, long road ahead.


btw, i figured out how to add some warmth — I’ve not done it yet — My timer has two plugs and I have a lamp that I’m not using hooked up to it I could put a standard incandescent bulb in there the old-school type that make a little bit of warmth it doesn’t have to be aimed at the plant it can just be near. I may try that. But I’ve been trying to let it be a little warmer in here anyway so we’ll see but I thought that was a pretty good idea.