Help with my first Vanda

[H.D]

Hi,
I am a complete beginner with Vanda orchids, and I just got my first Vanda, which is a Vanda Pachara Delight. I live in central India, and we have somewhat extreme weather here ( 45c+ in summers, and temperatures below +10c in winter and heavy rainfall in monsoon). could anyone help me with the following?
1) what could be the best culture for my vanda?
2) how often should i fertilize my orchid?
3) how should fertilize my orchid?

the Vanda in question is currently bare rooted and hung in my balcony. thanks!

[Shadeflower]

Hi HD,
so -10 where you live. Where are you planning to grow it? It won't be able to survive -10 degrees. It it mainly V. Coerulea which can handle a bit colder than some but I wouldn't go below +13 degrees C.

So you need to figure out where to keep it where it gets a good amount of sunlight most of the day but not full sun.

Behind a net curtain or shade cloth is good.

Vanda's like small regular feedings, it depends how big the vanda is, how many roots it has and how hot and how much sun it gets. All of these things will affect how much it grows and how much fertilizer it will need.
A full grown vanda with lots of roots needs about 1/4 the fertilizer a tomato plant would need and the smaller vanda's need less, about 1/8th.

I am not a fan of tomato fertilizers though as they do not contain all the micro nutrients that orchids need.

So what fertilizers can you get, can you get orchid fertilizer? Even they sometimes do not contain all. Let us know what shops you can get fertilizers from. Hydroponic shops are a good source too.

[estación seca]

Welcome to the Orchid Board!

Vandas are mostly warm growing plants that need lots of water and fertilizer, and bright light. 10C is quite low for them unless temperatures the following day are warmer. The blue-flowered ones tolerate these temperatures better than the other colors. Perhaps bring it into the house on the coldest nights.

Will you be growing it bare-root, or in a pot? If in a pot, with what medium?

Will you be growing it mostly outdoors, or indoors?

I live in a desert with temperatures similar to yours, except sometimes colder in winter. I need to grow Vandas indoors most of the time because of our low humidity.

Vandas grow rapidly in warm weather. They need lots of water. If bare-root, water every day so the roots are completely dark green. Most people water in the morning to minimize fungal issues. It should do well during your monsoon with higher humidity. If you notice fine wrinkles in the leaves they are not getting enough water. If this happens it is fine to soak the roots in a bucket of water for several hours. or overnight, so long as the roots dry between waterings.

What is the relative humidity when your temperatures are 45C? It is unlikely to tolerate much direct sun at those temperatures, but they are high light plants.

A Vanda nursery in Florida, Motes Orchids, recommends fertilizing so there is a 1cm wide pale green band of new growth at the base of the newest leaves. If the band is not 1cm the plant needs more fertilizer. If the band is wider than 1cm the plant needs less. They fertilize at every 5th watering with a heavy dose of fertilizer. Vandas need much more fertilizer than most other orchids to grow and flower to their best potential. If you fertilize at every watering you might use something like a volume of 0.75-1 ml of fertilizer powder per liter of water. Adjust the dose by watching the new growth. Motes has written he uses a concentration of 15ml of fertilizer powder per 3.78 liters of water. I too have observed Vanda growth is proportional to feeding.

Most granular fertilizers work well; be sure it has trace elements. Vandas are susceptible to magnesium deficiency. Your tap water may have enough. Check your water utility water quality report.

You can subscribe to the Motes E-mail list and get monthly growing recommendations.

[H.D]

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

Hi HD,
so -10 where you live. Where are you planning to grow it? It won't be able to survive -10 degrees. It it mainly V. Coerulea which can handle a bit colder than some but I wouldn't go below +13 degrees C.

So you need to figure out where to keep it where it gets a good amount of sunlight most of the day but not full sun.

Behind a net curtain or shade cloth is good.

Vanda's like small regular feedings, it depends how big the vanda is, how many roots it has and how hot and how much sun it gets. All of these things will affect how much it grows and how much fertilizer it will need.
A full grown vanda with lots of roots needs about 1/4 the fertilizer a tomato plant would need and the smaller vanda's need less, about 1/8th.

I am not a fan of tomato fertilizers though as they do not contain all the micro nutrients that orchids need.

So what fertilizers can you get, can you get orchid fertilizer? Even they sometimes do not contain all. Let us know what shops you can get fertilizers from. Hydroponic shops are a good source too.

Shadeflower, thanks for the reply!
sorry for the poor framing, the temp lowest is not -10c , but + 10c, the coldest nights being +4c,+5c.

I am using a fertilizer called "Orchid Boon" , but the thing is that it is meant to be used as a foliar spray. i got it online.
Most of the orchid growers in India are situated in either South India or in north , north east India, where there is a natural habitat for orchids. so as a result we don't have a lot of shops selling things specifically meant for orchids where I live.

so , all of my orchid supplies come from online stores.

---------- Post added at 08:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 AM ----------

Originally Posted by estación seca

Welcome to the Orchid Board!

Vandas are mostly warm growing plants that need lots of water and fertilizer, and bright light. 10C is quite low for them unless temperatures the following day are warmer. The blue-flowered ones tolerate these temperatures better than the other colors. Perhaps bring it into the house on the coldest nights.

Will you be growing it bare-root, or in a pot? If in a pot, with what medium?

Will you be growing it mostly outdoors, or indoors?

I live in a desert with temperatures similar to yours, except sometimes colder in winter. I need to grow Vandas indoors most of the time because of our low humidity.

Vandas grow rapidly in warm weather. They need lots of water. If bare-root, water every day so the roots are completely dark green. Most people water in the morning to minimize fungal issues. It should do well during your monsoon with higher humidity. If you notice fine wrinkles in the leaves they are not getting enough water. If this happens it is fine to soak the roots in a bucket of water for several hours. or overnight, so long as the roots dry between waterings.

What is the relative humidity when your temperatures are 45C? It is unlikely to tolerate much direct sun at those temperatures, but they are high light plants.

A Vanda nursery in Florida, Motes Orchids, recommends fertilizing so there is a 1cm wide pale green band of new growth at the base of the newest leaves. If the band is not 1cm the plant needs more fertilizer. If the band is wider than 1cm the plant needs less. They fertilize at every 5th watering with a heavy dose of fertilizer. Vandas need much more fertilizer than most other orchids to grow and flower to their best potential. If you fertilize at every watering you might use something like a volume of 0.75-1 ml of fertilizer powder per liter of water. Adjust the dose by watching the new growth. Motes has written he uses a concentration of 15ml of fertilizer powder per 3.78 liters of water. I too have observed Vanda growth is proportional to feeding.

Most granular fertilizers work well; be sure it has trace elements. Vandas are susceptible to magnesium deficiency. Your tap water may have enough. Check your water utility water quality report.

You can subscribe to the Motes E-mail list and get monthly growing recommendations.

Thank you, for your lovely and detailed reply!!

regarding the winters, the temperature drops in the nights, but we have moderate temperatures in the whole day, ranging from +20c to +30c , everyday. would my vanda be okay if this is the case?

during the hot months, we put a shade net all over the garden, so all other plants , which are not orchids, stay shaded. hence, I was planning to grow the vanda outside.

the humidity is very low in the summer months, just 10-15% only.

would a potted, basketed or even a vase culture vanda be a good option?

here in India, people grow orchids in charcoal a lot, so if the vanda is potted, i will try out charcoal first.

I could not identify any band of growth around the new leaf, but 5 new roots are emerging , and all of them are growing and have green growing tips.

I again thank you for the advice

[Nicolasdperez]

Originally Posted by H.D

would a potted, basketed or even a vase culture vanda be a good option?

here in India, people grow orchids in charcoal a lot, so if the vanda is potted, i will try out charcoal first.

I could not identify any band of growth around the new leaf, but 5 new roots are emerging , and all of them are growing and have green growing tips.

I again thank you for the advice

Hello I am currently growing vandas bare root and in charcoal in a low humidity environment. Bare root vandas need to be watered everyday and they have done great for me as long as I have met that requirement. That being said, vandas also need lots of air around their roots. I have potted a vanda in bark before, but lost some roots as the medium stayed wet for too long. The vanda is currently in charcoal and is doing great since it drains quicker. I cannot speak on water cultures due to my lack of experience, but either bare root or charcoal are great options as long as you can maintain a good balance of air and water. Good luck with your vanda, my first one was a pachara too

[H.D]

thank you for your advice nicolasdperez!!

[Shadeflower]

hi HD,

this should not be so complicated...

So I need to point out that Estacion will print out a ready scripted reply and I have tried to exchange notes with him on fertilizing but he doesn't want to listen. I tell him are you going to fertilize a plant till there is only a brown stick left or do you prefer to fertilize to create nice green growth yet he still recommends to feed more than tomato plants so I dunno, my advice is vastly differnt to ES's advice.

He says he follos Mr Motes method which is the opposite of what I do which is also what mr Moted recommended me to do (but the opposite of what ES does)

ES feeds at a very high concentration. I feed at a very low concentrations.

It should not be so complicated!

So you need to decide, do you want to feed heavily or feed accurately.

To help you decide I would suggest you look at some NPK fertilizers on Amazon. Read through the 1 star reviews to get an idea of what can and has gone wrong for other people who have tried fertilizing.

You will see that the number 1 reason people have problems is from burning their plants with too high a dose.

So the advice is always start with a reduced dose and see how the plant responds. Never start with the full recommended dose.

A further thing to realize is as I mentioned is that orchids need far less fertilizer than other house plants. ES again disagrees with this but this is basic orchid husbandry information that can be confirmed on pretty much any orchid care guide so just check if orchids need more or less than regular house plants. You can follow whichever advice you want, just make sure it doesn't kill your plants. So 1/8th of the recommended dose is good. For ease of things you can easily go 1/10th the recommended dose it says to feed house plants.

So if it says add 2 grams (half a teaspoon) of fertilizer per liter of water for geraniums or roses, then you add 2 grams per 10 liters for orchids.

Ok so is your fertilizer any good?

Simple answer is no...

Your fertilizer might work but the ratio of nutrients is very imbalanced on both the grow and bloom ferts and there wa no mention of calcium. It is basically a bad combination of nutrients.

It would be like going to the petrol station and deciding ok I don't know if I need petrol or diesel so I will just pick half petrol with half diesel and hope it works.

That won't work and it is an extreme examlpe but it will be similar with these fertilizers. They are not complete.

So from initial serches it does seem to be hard to get good fertilizers on Amazon in India.

Even if you find a good looking one, based on the reviews a lot of fake products then gets sent to customers? so if you end up with a fake product that could be harmful to your plants!

So any recommendation I make is with that warning in mind, make sure you receive what the picture is meant to look like.

Buy Katyayani NPK 19 19 19 100% Water Soluble Fertilizer for Plants, Garden, Hydroponics Online at Low Prices in India - Amazon.in

this is the first one I found. It looks ok but it is not clear if it contains all micro nutrients it should.
This one says feed 2 grams per liter, so for a vanda, you start by feeding 2 grams per 10 liters on every watering.

Next one is this one :
Buy Basfoliar (R) from Germany 19:19:19 NPK Water Soluble Fertilizer Cum Plant Feed with Micronutrients - 1 Kg Online at Low Prices in India - Amazon.in

You have to make sure you receive the right bag for this one!
It looks very good, the only problem with this one is it has been designed for tap water.

With orchids you should be using rain water. If you plan to use tap water (which can be done) then this is fine as it is but if you use rain water you have to add supplemental Calcium and Magensium.

This is where it gets a bit complicated.

The Calmag I found does not contain enough magnesium so you need to supplement with cal mag:
Utkarsh CalMag (1 Lit) (Calcium Magnesium Supplement for Hydroponics and Indoor Outdoor Plants) : Amazon.in: Garden & Outdoors

but since it contains too little magnesium you also need to supplement with Epsom salt:
Buy Thanjai Natural 1Kg Epsom Salt (1st Quality Magnesium Sulphate) - Muscle Relief, Relieves Aches & Pain | Bath and Feet Soak | Plant Growth & Plant Nutrient | Energy Manure for Plants Online at Low Prices in India - Amazon.in

and you have to work out the correct dose for all 3 products.

1/10th for the 19-19-19 NPK is easy enough
1/10th of the recommended dose on the Cal-mag should be good
then for the epsom salt I would go with half a teaspoon (2 grams) per 10 liter bucket of water

All 3 would always have to be mixed together in this way to create a complete feed containing all the NPK, Ca and Magnesium in the correct ratio.

Ok my last recommendation and again I have never used this product and don't know how it will work out but based on my initial research this is the best I could find that will not cost too much (if you want the very expensive product that you can buy that I know will work, let me know, it is a lot more expensive though):

Hydroponics Nutrients : Amazon.in: Home & Kitchen

Again start by feeding 10 times less than the recommended amount and use it every time you water.

A lot of people make the solution and keep it in a bucket so they can then dunk the roots into the bucket once a day.

You might be unsure when to use a grow nutrient and when to use a bloom nutrient (if the product comes in two forms like that). MY general advice is most of the time just use the grow nutrient. The grow nutrient can be used all year round no problem, the bloom nutrient cannot. So the bloom nutrient should be used sparingly through out the year at times when it is blooming.

So this last one is in theory my preferred choice as it should theoretically contain all nutrients and be the only complete feed.
I say theoretically because the exact formation is not detailed.

The second choice (geman one) is the one I would trust the most as long as you receive the right product but you would have to supplement it with additional Calcium and Magnesium in the form of Epsom Salts.

[H.D]

shade flower, I must whole heartedly thank you for your deep and detailed answer. I am a bit overwhelmed at the level of research you put in for my query!!
at your advice, I already created a 1/10 solution of the boon in a bucket.
I will keep all of you posted on how things turn out. I will be growing the vanda bare rooted till the summer and then see what happens.
thanks again!!!

[Shadeflower]

Hey HD, sorry if I overwhelmed you.
I like to be precise and to the point, sometimes that can result in me stepping on people's toes which I don't mean to do.
I have given my advice from my perspective if I had just landed in India and needed to get a good fertilzer for my orchids.

There is also the debate whether Vanda's need more nutrients than other orchids and vanda's can get very very big. Once they get up to 1 meter tall then they will surely need more nutrients but by the time anyone's vanda reaches that size one will have a better understanding of their needs.

I hope it works ok for you. People used to grow with cow manure before the ready made fertilizers came along and they got their orchids to bloom just fine so that is also worth noting. I just like to finetune things as best I can

[estación seca]

When I began growing Vandas I found they hardly grow with the low amounts of fertilizer I use on other orchids. When I first read the amount recommended in the Motes book (1 Tablespoon/15ml of powder in a gallon / 3.8 liters) I was surprised, but it seemed to me reasonable to take the advice of somebody whose income comes from selling Vandas.

Since I began using the very large amounts recommended by Motes they began growing rapidly. I'm not the only person with this opinion here on Orchid Board:
http://www.orchidboard.com/community/962646-post14.html

Your summer temperatures with low humidity will be a challenge. You might need to water bare-root Vandas twice a day. You can raise the local humidity by growing other leafy plants nearby. Vandas can also be potted in very loose medium, which may decrease watering frequency.