I just purchased a phalaenopsis schilleriana with 2 keikis. Help!

[Shadeflower]

msarro, as long as you know how to grow plants hydroponically you will be able to grow orchids.

They require the same care just any nutrients you would feed a mature hydroponic plant you feed 10x less for the orchids. The aim with orchids is to have a humid, airy substrate. So any hydroponic media works well as they need to be just as airy to work

Orchids grow hydroponically. Hydroponics is growing plants in anythng but soil, bark is included in hydroponic growing although bark arguably does degrade and shares some soil properties.

Some people reckon missorchidgirl has no idea what she talks about - I reckon she knows more than most.

Some will argue she spreads misinformation. I would argue she seeks out the truth instead of just accepting what others have been doing for 50 years has been correct.

I wouldn't say she has ever given me advice that I thought was detrimental - the only exception is her liberal use of hydrogen peroxide on roots. I use HP too but not at full strength like she recommends which can damage roots.

That said, I know the kind of keiki video's where the mother is dying. A dying mother can often trigger keiki's to be formed you see!
But it is not a requirment and keiki's will not kill the mother. If he mother is be dying from losing its roots to a fungal infection and makes some keikis, the mother plant will carry on rotting.

You can ignore that scenario as everything is healthy here.

I also think this is 3 plants in one pot however, I honestly do not think these are keiki's at all. For starters they are all the same size/age.

Most people reduce/ stop fertilzing in winter in response to an orchid slowing down growth, similar to after receiving an orchid and it beeing stressed initially, less nutrients are needed than a summer dose in some cases but generally just have one dose or no dose is enough, no need to have a seperte winter and summer rate but that is everyone's individual preference.

Some orchids actually need more nutrients in winter, some undergo a rest and need less.

There is no universal right way to fertilize.

There is also much debate on which fertilizer ratio is correct, the bottom line is most of them work equally as well so what some consider misinformation I consider just different approaches to growing orchids..

[msarro]

Originally Posted by estación seca

Go back to an earlier question - why would a plant evolve to grow multiple rosettes from the base if that harms the plant? Rather, the plant evolved to grow multiple growths from the base because that improves its health and increases its chances of passing on its genes.

Your points all make complete sense from a biological perspective. There are other cases in biology where progeny can be detrimental to the mother if she isn't able to gain enough nutrition to keep them alive. Hence prenatal vitamins, right?

But the big difference there is that offspring in utero aren't taking in nutrition like keikis can, once they develop roots. But until they develop roots, aren't keikis still sapping nutrition from the mother plant? And if you have a plant predisposed to developing a ton of them, couldn't that potentially lead to nutritional deficits in the mother? A parallel would be pregnancy-induced osteoperosis in mothers where their body robs them of so much calcium to develop the fetus that can cause all kinds of negative effects.

Like I said, your points make sense! And I'm thinking in terms of other biological kingdoms, so the mechanisms could totally be different.

---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

msarro, as long as you know how to grow plants hydroponically you will be able to grow orchids.

They require the same care just any nutrients you would feed a mature hydroponic plant you feed 10x less for the orchids. The aim with orchids is to have a humid, airy substrate. So any hydroponic media works well as they need to be just as airy to work

Orchids grow hydroponically. Hydroponics is growing plants in anythng but soil, bark is included in hydroponic growing although bark arguably does degrade and shares some soil properties.

Thank you so much for this. I think that's actually one of the things I've really learned to like about epiphytic plants like orchids or aroids. It really is basically like hydroponics which is something I'm already at least a little practiced with.

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

I wouldn't say she has ever given me advice that I thought was detrimental - the only exception is her liberal use of hydrogen peroxide on roots. I use HP too but not at full strength like she recommends which can damage roots.

That one spooks me! I know that hydrogen peroxide basically kills all of the tissue it touches. So while it can definitely kill bad bugs, it also kills good tissue too.

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

That said, I know the kind of keiki video's where the mother is dying. A dying mother can often trigger keiki's to be formed you see!
But it is not a requirment and keiki's will not kill the mother. If he mother is be dying from losing its roots to a fungal infection and makes some keikis, the mother plant will carry on rotting.

You can ignore that scenario as everything is healthy here.

Thank you! That was one of the only videos I could find where there were multiple keikis, and it caused health issues. That's what had me concerned going into this. Combine those health issues with the stress of shipping the plant, then moving it into a very different environment, and I was really concerned about potential health issues.

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

I also think this is 3 plants in one pot however, I honestly do not think these are keiki's at all. For starters they are all the same size/age.

I truly hope so! If that's all it is, I should be able to separate them and give each one its own pot and some individual attention. I'll keep my fingers crossed!

[Roberta]

Phals typically aren't fussy about repotting. (I haven't seen that Phal schilleriana is any fussier than others and I have several of them.) So there is really no need to speculate... pull it out of the pot and see what you have. If one club that is growing together, leave it that way. It will appreciate some fresh medium at any rate. If it is really a "compot" with three separate plants, there is no advantage to leaving them in the same pot so you can just pot them up separately. What you DON'T want to do is cut anything apart. And skip the peroxide, It does have the possibility of damaging the little hairs on the roots. If diluted, it doesn't do much of anything. And you don't need it - if the old mix is cruddy, wash the roots before you repot. In a healthy, well-aerated environment, rot doesn't have a chance to get a foothold, will just die out.

---------- Post added at 02:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 PM ----------

A little additional note about sitting back and observing... I have a Phal schilleriana that bloomed beautifully last February. Along with a bunch of beautiful flowers, it sprouted leaves at one of the nodes of the spike - the start of a true keiki. When, after several months the flowers faded, the leaves on the spike were still going strong, though no roots. So I just left the old spike to see what it would do. Eventually, the spike above the developing keiki died (light brown, brittle, definitely done), but the part below it was still very much alive. Other than that, it just sat there, no roots so no separation. Well I have to do a talk on mounting next weekend at a show, so I'm looking around for things that I can use to demonstrate techniques. Behold, that Phal schilleriana keiki is FINALLY growing some roots. Still a bit small, ideally I'd wait another month or two, but it is going to be taken for the demonstration and will likely be fine. The plant has already started another spike, so it'll probably bloom about the same time next winter - plant is very healthy. The keiki is just a bonus. Since it is on a spike, it isn't part of the main plant. It is ready for an independent life.

[msarro]

Hi everyone!

Following up - the phal arrived today. I've attached a few photos.

It ended up getting lost by USPS and spent more time in transit than I'd hoped (no fault of the seller). So for now it got a quick drink and is sitting in a south facing window to recover and quarantine a bit. One aerial root got damaged in shipping (the edge of the pot cut through the velamen) so I am assuming that is going to die off.

It is smaller than I expected by a good margin. The listing had it listed as "blooming size" which I am not sure I agree with. Most blooming schillerianas I have seen are much, MUCH larger than this. The longest leaf on the largest plant is about 4 inches long. The smaller ones are in the 1-2 inch size.

I cannot tell if there are 3 or 4 orchids here. I can't tell if they were flask mates that were too close together to separate, or if it's a mix of flask mates and keikis, or what. I won't know until I can separate them.

Sadly because they are much smaller than I expected, I don't really have any pots on hand to handle the smaller plants (assuming they aren't keikis). I have some 3" pots but it looks like I may need 2 inch pots, which require a run to the store that I can't make right now.

So, any further work may have to wait until this weekend. That's actually not a terrible thing since I have kelpmax coming in today (thanks Ray!), and physan 20 coming in on saturday. I will probably start splitting things up sunday which hopefully gives this guy a few days to recover from transit.

[Roberta]

I don't see any keikis (new plants growing on a spike). I see basal growths that are part of the plant - don't separate them, they all can bloom, as a clump, making a very beautiful display. If, when you repot, you find that they are truly separate plants, they they could be potted separately. But again, the more "mass" in the pot, the better the display.

[msarro]

Originally Posted by Roberta

I don't see any keikis (new plants growing on a spike). I see basal growths that are part of the plant - don't separate them, they all can bloom, as a clump, making a very beautiful display.

Thank you! I think you might be right given how everything is oriented.

This weekend when I repot it I'll see if they are in fact individual plants with basal growths, or if it's all one big clump. I'm definitely curious to see how it all pans out!

If it's all one big clump that's certainly not a big issue, though it may change my plans up a little bit. All together it would make for one extremely impressive display of foliage!

[YetAnotherOrchidNut]

About keikis, I think you need to reconsider the causation at play. Some plants produce Keikis when they are unhealthy, as a last chance to sustain themselves. Thus sometimes keikis are associated with unhealthy plants. But that does not mean that the keiki is killing the plant, rather the keiki is produced because the plant "thinks" it might die and the keiki might survive. Heck it is entirely possible that the keiki is supporting the damaged mother, not draining it.

Also some phals produce keikis naturally. I have two which do it all the time - its really annoying as my wife wont let me give them away to "unqualified" owners, and they take up space that I could use on other types. :-)

[msarro]

Originally Posted by YetAnotherOrchidNut

About keikis, I think you need to reconsider the causation at play. Some plants produce Keikis when they are unhealthy, as a last chance to sustain themselves. Thus sometimes keikis are associated with unhealthy plants. But that does not mean that the keiki is killing the plant, rather the keiki is produced because the plant "thinks" it might die and the keiki might survive. Heck it is entirely possible that the keiki is supporting the damaged mother, not draining it.

Also some phals produce keikis naturally. I have two which do it all the time - its really annoying as my wife wont let me give them away to "unqualified" owners, and they take up space that I could use on other types. :-)

Yup, I am keeping an open mind! I've also read on other threads on this board that, in nature, p. schilleriana is capable of producing keikis from roots (kind of unique) as part of its natural growth habit. So we'll see what is going on!

This is just the first time I've ever dealt with keikis, so my mind immediately is getting concerned about the "negative" cases

Re: wife, my wife would probably be ecstatic for me to get rid of some plants!

[Mr.Fakename]

Originally Posted by msarro

Yup, I am keeping an open mind! I've also read on other threads on this board that, in nature, p. schilleriana is capable of producing keikis from roots (kind of unique) as part of its natural growth habit. So we'll see what is going on!

Interesting, do you have the links to those threads? Doing it is common for the related Phal stuartiana, but I've never heard of schilleriana growing new plants from roots!

[msarro]

Originally Posted by Mr.Fakename

Interesting, do you have the links to those threads? Doing it is common for the related Phal stuartiana, but I've never heard of schilleriana growing new plants from roots!

Phal Scilleriana Root Keiki

Hopefully it lets me post it this time! Sadly I'm new enough that the forum wasn't letting me post links last time...

That post also mentions it's a characteristic of Staurtiana as well!