Any alternative to MSU fertilizer for well water in Europe?
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  #11  
Old 02-10-2021, 07:18 AM
ChrisMalaga ChrisMalaga is offline
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Any alternative to MSU fertilizer for well water in Europe? Male
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Ok, I decided to try my experiment anyways

I would need some help with doses, if any of you is so kind, I'm not great at calculations!

I will start with a commercial liquid fertilizer for orchids, which is a 3+4+5

Of the 3% N, 0.4% is nitric, 1.2% is ammonia, 1.1% is urea and 0.3% is organic (?). So, 2.6% of nitrogen that is not nitric.

I bought magnesium nitrate in powder, that contains 10.5% N – 15.6% MgO.
I would like the nitric part of my fertilizer be 3 times higher than the rest of the nitrogen.

I also bought Humic/Fulvic Acid in powder that contains 64% humic acid, 6% fulvic acid and 10% potassium (the addition of Potassium should work well, since I'm adding Magnesium, I think). I see some people dilute this to 1/4 tsp Humic Acid/gallon of water.

I'm adding about 2ml phosphoric acid to 8 liters (2 gallons) water to lower my PH to from 8.7 to 5.8 (I guess I should add less if I use humic and fulvic acid).

Can someone tell me how much of the Magnesium nitrate and Humic/Fulvic acid powders should I add in addition to my liquid fertilizer to reach the perfect equilibrium and what the end formula for my fertilizer would be?
  #12  
Old 02-10-2021, 10:25 AM
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Ray Ray is offline
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Any alternative to MSU fertilizer for well water in Europe? Male
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So the "non-nitric" is 2.6% and you want the nitric total to be 3x2.6=7.8%.

0.004F + 0.105MN = 0.078 (F+MN)
0.004F + 0.105MN = 0.078F + 0.078MN

Subtract the 0.004F and 0.078MN from both sides

0.0105MN - 0.078MN = 0.078F - 0.004F
0.027MN = 0.074F

Divide both sides by 0.027 and you get
MN = 0.074/0.027 = 2.74F

That means your blend needs to be 2.74/3.74 = 73.26% magnesium nitrate and 26.74% fertilizer.

(Double-checking my math)

0.7326 x 0.105 = 0.076944
0.2674 x 0.004 = 0.0010696
0.076944 + 0.0010696 = 0.0780096 or 7.8% plus a smidge.

I have no idea about the acid addition.
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  #13  
Old 02-10-2021, 10:47 AM
ChrisMalaga ChrisMalaga is offline
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Any alternative to MSU fertilizer for well water in Europe? Male
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Oh wow, I thought it would be something like 60-65% fertilizer and 35-40% magnesium nitrate.

To my intuition (without any maths) something that contains 10.5% Nitric is already over 3 times higher (actually over 4 times) than something that contains 2.6% Ammonia, so I would have added a bit more fertilizer than magnesium nitrate

I still need to understand how this is possible (however I know you're good in calculations!).

One more "silly" question: how can I make a proportion between something that is liquid with something that is a powder? Based on volume, on weight, or...?

Last edited by ChrisMalaga; 02-10-2021 at 10:58 AM..
  #14  
Old 11-04-2021, 07:38 AM
Shadeflower Shadeflower is offline
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Any alternative to MSU fertilizer for well water in Europe?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMalaga View Post
Oh wow, I thought it would be something like 60-65% fertilizer and 35-40% magnesium nitrate.

I still need to understand how this is possible (however I know you're good in calculations!).
Just doing some research I came across this nearly 1 year old thread. Wonder if there is an update but at least it made me laugh a lot.

Especially the last comment.

We all know Ray can't do math... Most of his figures are just copied from other sources. Literally copy his website info into google to see where the info originally came from but that is another subject entirely. To think that makes someone good at math is laughable.

But yes just grumpy old SF passing through again having a little laugh at the suggestion of adding "73.26% magnesium nitrate and 26.74% fertilizer."

The real ratio was in fact 0.3 ml per liter of fertilizer to 0.2g of Magnesium Nitrate or a ratio of

3 to 2 for fertilizer to magnesium nitrate.

The magnesium nitrate is already 3 times stronger in concentration than the fertilizer in that example.

So 70% would have been way way too much magnesium. That amount would have locked out other nutrients and caused a serious deficiency.

I really hope you did not use 70% magnesium nitrate but I am suspecting this just ended in a failed experiment and maybe a grower lost. Even adding the 0.2g/l of magnesiu nitrate would have added way too much magnesium imo, it would have been the right amount to get 3 times the nitric nitrogen but would have been too much magnesium as a result.

A bit of common sense is still needed when evaluating fertilizers.

I can't even be bothered to follow what Ray worked out, it would add so much magnesium it would lock out all other nutrients - that's all there really is to know.

If anyone wants to do the math themselves, you do not need to rely on Ray to do it badly every time.

you just need a good fertilizer calculator that does it all for you.

You just type in the numbers on the bottle, the cncentration you want and hey presto at the click of a button you will be an expert like Ray (without the wonky math)

Water Soluble Fertilizer Calculator

Last edited by Shadeflower; 11-04-2021 at 07:47 AM..
  #15  
Old 11-04-2021, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadeflower View Post
We all know Ray can't do math... Most of his figures are just copied from other sources. Literally copy his website info into google to see where the info originally came from but that is another subject entirely. To think that makes someone good at math is laughable.
Wow - you must be off your meds again. You go into "attack mode" unprovoked and become an insulting ass because YOU don't understand the math I offered a couple of comments ago.

Your "real ratio", by the way, is laughable and clearly demonstrates your ignorance:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadeflower View Post
The real ratio was in fact 0.3 ml per liter of fertilizer to 0.2g of Magnesium Nitrate or a ratio of

3 to 2 for fertilizer to magnesium nitrate.
First of all, you equate a volume with a mass without having the slightest idea of the density of the liquid fertilizer, but I'll make the assumption that you're "close enough" on that. We were talking nitrate content (0.4% by weight of the fertilizer), not total nitrogen, but even if the density was 1 g/ml, adding 0.3ml/L results in a nitrate contribution of 0.003 x 0.004 = 0.000012g nitrate/L. Your recommended 0.2g magnesium nitrate contributes 0.002 x 0.105 = 0.00021 g nitrate/L, giving you a grand total of 0.000222g/L, or 0.022 % nitrate - a far cry from the 7.8% that was sought.

You must really be obsessed with me, making you nothing short of pitiful. You dredge up and old thread, and use it as an excuse to attack me. I'm awfully glad you're across the pond or I might have to take out a restraining order on you. I know the moderators here have done the equivalent by blocking your access several times, but you use IP spoofing and have created several personae to come back again to satisfy your obsession. You really should get professional help.

Concerning the info on my website, the stuff I post on my website might be original, might be restated in a way that is intended to be more friendly to others, or I might have made a mistake (Oh shit! Unlike you, I admit when that happens.). You will also sometimes find bits of text that I replicated because it was so clear, there was no reason to state it differently. I have also found my own work replicated in other websites, so what's the big deal? Are you certain the stuff you find on Google didn't originate with me? I don't care one way or another, as it's all sharing of information, which makes us all more knowledgeable. (Except you, maybe, judging by your history of responses.)

Think of a website as being a local library. You are interested in a particular subject, and you have been satisfied with info you've gotten there in the past, so you go back there, rather than to a different library, elsewhere, and it's nice to find the new info you wanted so easily accessible. Sort-of like the same book being on the shelves to more than one library branch - when did they start doing that????
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Last edited by Ray; 11-04-2021 at 08:49 AM..
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  #16  
Old 11-04-2021, 12:35 PM
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Enough. Thread closed. I'm tired of this, and it's past old. Take the fight somewhere other than Orchid Board. Stop it Shadeflower. And IGNORE the bait, Ray, and whoever else wants to chime in. Just all stop. Everyone. If ya can't stand it, utilize the tools provided by Orchid Board to block what someone else says.
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