Phalaenopsis Orchid- Great leaves/ Poor Roots

[SouthPark]

N2O ----- most welcome. I think the members have it right here. Most likely a case of not enough watering and/or fertiliser or calcium poisoning of the roots.

If you get a white-coloured build-up around the pot rim and/or roots and/or bark pieces, then they can be 'visible' signs of issues.

Anyway ------ I was chatting to other members on a different thread, and the latest message I posted there (click here) just shows one extra possible option for growers - if it suits them and their conditions that is.

The method is to use something like a watering wand ---- to spray lots of water into the media out toward the sides of a pot ----- in a band or region that suits you. And then spray a little bit (much much less) water toward the middle of the pot.

This lets me water every morning (even though I don't actually need to water every morning). It will work for bark too. Just got to make sure (from your experience) that enough water is applied to the outskirts of the pot, so that the water can get down into the media, which allows the rest of the regions to stay nice and humid during the day.

A good drainage pot, and drain-grate (and pot dish) can help keep the bottom of the pot above the level of any drained-water sitting in the pot dish.

I apply roughly one-quarter recommended strength fertiliser too, just as you do. But I only apply it once a month. Maybe every 2 weeks is ok too. But even for once a month, I figure that whenever the media gets wet from normal watering, there will be fertiliser elements hanging around in the media for any roots to pick up.

Also - for humid places, a fan or natural breeze in the growing area is very helpful for not only cutting down on fungal/bacterial issues ------- but also to help with water movement in the media and along the roots (which is good).

Also - the following links contain some growing information may become helpful in the future.

Click Here and Click Here and Click Here and Click Here and Click Here and Click Here

[Ray]

Originally Posted by New2Orchids2020

Dear Ray.
Thank you for responding. I am in zone 8. Tap water results attached. Everything I read says you should fertilize/feed weakly weekly at 1/2 of what the directions say to use. I use even less-1/4 to a gallon of water and each plant only gets half the gallon every 2 weeks.

I watered my plants as suggested.

The idea for the supplements is from a lady on YouTube called Orchid Whisperer.

I did not see any growth in my plants until I began using the CalMag. Now I have a new leaf and root growth. I will water them more frequently and see how they fare.

1) Your USDA Hardiness zone is pretty much meaningless for orchid growing, as it relates to freeze-hardiness, and no tropical orchid is freeze hardy. It certainly has nothing to do with water chemistry.

2) Your water analysis shows about 14 ppm Ca but almost no magnesium. That suggests to me that you may need to supplement the magnesium more than calcium. With your water + cal-mag + lime regimen, you have definitely been overdoing the calcium, and that can interfere with the uptake of other nutrients. Add 1 teaspoon of Epsom Salts to your water once a month and the plants will be happy.

3) You seem to be detail oriented (welcome to the club), so I suggest you do away with nebulous "measurements" such as "weekly" and fractional doses. I have found that providing the plants with about 75-100 ppm N on a weekly basis seems to be a good level. If you divide 7 by the %N on your fertilizer label, the result is teaspoons/gallon for the midpoint of that range, allowing you to round for measurement convenience.

If you feed once a week, use that amount. If you feed twice a week, halve it, etc.

[Orchidtinkerer]

Calcium is also needed at 100 ppm, just like N and calcium can be overfertilized more than other nutrients so although I am all in favor of keeping things as balanced as possible and avoiding lockouts, calcium routinely gets overfed but the plant can handle a calcium toxicity better than other nutrients at least so although I believe New2Orchids has been feeding 2x as much, phals can just about handle 2x too much Ca. If the water only has 14ppm Ca that is practically the same as 0, so to me feeding Cal-mag makes sense.

If the OP is "poisoning" their phal then I think half the world is too I can't see any burnt roots
I've already suggested halving the dose which should make all the difference between getting poisoned and the right amount

[WaterWitchin]

Originally Posted by New2Orchids2020

Dear WaterWitchin',

Thank you for responding. I unpotted my orchid, pulled off the old moldy velamen, repotted it and watered it.

Okay. Now stop repotting, and give it time. The roots already look better. When the roots get silvery, water it. Listen to what Ray says about the amount of fertilizer needed. I would drop the use of the lime, period.

Don't depend on watching just YouTube videos for information. There's some good info there, and also some bad info. Research in more than one place.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Orchidtinkerer

Calcium is also needed at 100 ppm, just like N and calcium can be overfertilized more than other nutrients so although I am all in favor of keeping things as balanced as possible and avoiding lockouts, calcium routinely gets overfed but the plant can handle a calcium toxicity better than other nutrients at least so although I believe New2Orchids has been feeding 2x as much, phals can just about handle 2x too much Ca. If the water only has 14ppm Ca that is practically the same as 0, so to me feeding Cal-mag makes sense.

If the OP is "poisoning" their phal then I think half the world is too I can't see any burnt roots
I've already suggested halving the dose which should make all the difference between getting poisoned and the right amount

Do some digging; the demand for calcium is more on the order of about 10% of the demand for nitrogen, not 100% as you stated.

“Poisoning” and “burning” are not synonymous. The classic over-fertilization “burning” is an osmotic effect - excessive salts literally “sucking” water out of the cells and killing them. I don’t see that in the photos.

The “poisoning” I referred to is literally toxicity, due to excessive exposure to-, or an odd ratio of elements.

[SADE2020]

I am new around here, but I have great deal of time growing roots of Phals, I totally agreed with Orchidtinkerer that Spray the top of the roots every other day will help, since you have a big pot and humidity wont go to the top.

Looks good now, just a bit patient.

[New2Orchids2020]

Originally Posted by SADE2020

I am new around here, but I have great deal of time growing roots of Phals, I totally agreed with Orchidtinkerer that Spray the top of the roots every other day will help, since you have a big pot and humidity wont go to the top.

Looks good now, just a bit patient.

Dear Sade2020,

Thank you for responding. I am new here as well. I have two orchids and the more I learn the more I want to see my orchids grow and thrive. I have limited myself to two. I received one as a gift and the other I purchased from Sams. It is very exciting to see the new leaf and the root beginning to grow.

Yes, I will exercise a bit more patience and water them more frequently as the roots direct.

:-D

---------- Post added at 08:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 PM ----------

Originally Posted by SouthPark

N2O ----- most welcome. I think the members have it right here. Most likely a case of not enough watering and/or fertiliser or calcium poisoning of the roots.

If you get a white-coloured build-up around the pot rim and/or roots and/or bark pieces, then they can be 'visible' signs of issues.

Anyway ------ I was chatting to other members on a different thread, and the latest message I posted there (click here) just shows one extra possible option for growers - if it suits them and their conditions that is.

The method is to use something like a watering wand ---- to spray lots of water into the media out toward the sides of a pot ----- in a band or region that suits you. And then spray a little bit (much much less) water toward the middle of the pot.

This lets me water every morning (even though I don't actually need to water every morning). It will work for bark too. Just got to make sure (from your experience) that enough water is applied to the outskirts of the pot, so that the water can get down into the media, which allows the rest of the regions to stay nice and humid during the day.

A good drainage pot, and drain-grate (and pot dish) can help keep the bottom of the pot above the level of any drained-water sitting in the pot dish.

I apply roughly one-quarter recommended strength fertiliser too, just as you do. But I only apply it once a month. Maybe every 2 weeks is ok too. But even for once a month, I figure that whenever the media gets wet from normal watering, there will be fertiliser elements hanging around in the media for any roots to pick up.

Also - for humid places, a fan or natural breeze in the growing area is very helpful for not only cutting down on fungal/bacterial issues ------- but also to help with water movement in the media and along the roots (which is good).

Also - the following links contain some growing information may become helpful in the future.

Click Here and Click Here and Click Here and Click Here and Click Here and Click Here

Dear SouthPark,

Thank you for all of the information and the video. I especially like the watering diagram. Very detailed. :-D

---------- Post added at 08:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 PM ----------

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

Okay. Now stop repotting, and give it time. The roots already look better. When the roots get silvery, water it. Listen to what Ray says about the amount of fertilizer needed. I would drop the use of the lime, period.

Don't depend on watching just YouTube videos for information. There's some good info there, and also some bad info. Research in more than one place.

Dear WaterWitchin,

Thank you for responding. You are so very right! There is SO much information online about orchids and orchid care...information overload at times. At the same time (per your quote) I must keep in mind that every environment is not the same and what will work for some will not work for everyone. The Orchid Whisperer on Youtube has tons of beautiful orchids and she utilizes all of the supplements I named...however at the same time she also uses reverse osmosis water.

[Orchidtinkerer]

Originally Posted by Ray

Do some digging; the demand for calcium is more on the order of about 10% of the demand for nitrogen, not 100% as you stated.

If the orchidboard longtime helper can't get his facts right half the time how are the beginners supposed to learn properly???

Get your facts straight before trying to teach others:

https://staugorchidsociety.org/PDF/C...ySueBottom.pdf

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Orchidtinkerer

If the orchidboard longtime helper can't get his facts right half the time how are the beginners supposed to learn properly???

Get your facts straight before trying to teach others:

https://staugorchidsociety.org/PDF/C...ySueBottom.pdf

One person’s published opinion, no matter whose, does not make it gospel. In that article, Roy recommended an application of 40-100 ppm Ca as a rough guide.

The big problem to orchid growers is the unknown factor of media retention.

Ppm is a concentration, not a mass, and it’s the mass of applied nutrients that matters. For me, growing in S/H culture, or using rock wool- based mixes, the degree of retention is high - approaching 50%. Growers in sphagnum might have similar levels. Growers using bark will have much lower retention levels. With higher retention, the applied concentration need not be so great for the retained mass to be adequate. The bottom line here is that we don’t know how much of what we apply is taken up by the plants, so cannot accurately judge the necessary concentration.

That’s why I base my demand estimate as much on tissue analysis as anything, and that suggests Ca levels are around 10% of the N levels. Granted, tissue analyses only tell us what’s there, not what is needed. Does a human “tissue analysis” indicating high cholesterol levels mean we need it??? Of course not, but if broad sampling of plant tissues suggest a certain level, I don’t think we’d be too far off base trying to supply that.

[WaterWitchin]

Originally Posted by New2Orchids2020

Dear WaterWitchin,

Thank you for responding. You are so very right! There is SO much information online about orchids and orchid care...information overload at times. At the same time (per your quote) I must keep in mind that every environment is not the same and what will work for some will not work for everyone. The Orchid Whisperer on Youtube has tons of beautiful orchids and she utilizes all of the supplements I named...however at the same time she also uses reverse osmosis water.

Please be assured that I also glean information from the St. Augustine Orchid Society. ...

Exactly. Your culture, your environment, your particular orchids. And using RO water, yes, already one cultural difference. Many popular YouTubers are "how-to specialists" who put a lot of effort into their videos. It's how the money is made. I'm not saying it's bad to watch YouTube videos... just take what's said and what is presented with a grain of salt, and compare to your specific needs. Same as you would any source; you can find plenty of folks right here on Orchid Board who will give you different opinions. St. Augustine OS also has great information, as do numerous other places.

I know many who have tons of beautiful orchids as well. It's because they've figured out their environment, their particular culture, the particular orchids they grow. And share their successes and failures. Anyone can tell you how they grow orchids successfully, or unsuccessfully. Pick and choose what works for you.

Sort of like training dogs. Everyone who has dogs has an opinion on how to train them. One has to look at methods that suit both the individual training and the particular dog being trained. That's a start, the picking and choosing what fits your style and environment, for your particular orchid's requirements.