Oncidium Hilo Sparkler not growing - why?

[twinkie]

I am struggling to make my Bigshot Hilo Sparkler happy and I can't seem to find what it wants. It's about three years old and when purchased was doing okay.

First I had it in 'too large' phal type bark (according to online advice) - but at least it was putting out roots - (but wasn't growing leaves) so then switched to small oncidium chips (proper mix according to online advice) with bits of sphagnum mixed in and put it under my grow light - got worse - switched back to coarser bark with moss and left it under the grow light; it's going to give up the ghost if I don't figure this out.

I've got two or three healthy roots, it's literally sitting on top of the bark all floppy, the leaves are light green, nothing 'plump' about it anywhere and it never was 'plump' and glossy when I bought it.

I mist the bark and roots from up top, I don't mist them, I do 10 minute nitrogen soaks, stop that and do quick baths and then heavy mist the medium every other day, every three days - nada - I can't find what it wants....

It seems like it's telling me it does NOT want to be 'planted' in ANY type moss, bark or chips, I already tried the 'for oncidiums' mixes, am at wit's end on how to nurse it back. I know I need root growth else it's done for....

Are there any oncidium wizards out there? I live where there is so little sun it's disgusting, I thought the grow light would help it as it's done wonders for my cymbidium and spider orchid (spidey was totally dead in the water until I introduced major light source). Can I try wiring this orchid onto something more 'fibery' and just mist the bejezuz out of it? More light, less light, where's the happy point? No balanced fert? Fert it? I just can't seem to find anything that gives it a growth spike.

[Ray]

Thanks to taxonomists’ games, your plant is Shunkeara Big Shot ‘Hilo Sparkle’.

First of all, stop re-repotting it. Every time you change the medium, it is a setback to the plant. There is no such thing as a universal “oncidium” or “phalaenopsis” medium, as their applicability is more closely related to your growing conditions, and less to the plant itself. Oncidiums generally prefer evenly moist medium that stays airy, so choose one that provides that in your growing conditions and stick to it.

Your plant is a medium, to low-light grower that prefers intermediate temperatures.

No need to feed it until you get a decent root system on the plant. KelpMax can certainly help with that.

[twinkie]

Originally Posted by Ray

Thanks to taxonomists’ games, your plant is Shunkeara Big Shot ‘Hilo Sparkle’.

First of all, stop re-repotting it. Every time you change the medium, it is a setback to the plant. There is no such thing as a universal “oncidium” or “phalaenopsis” medium, as their applicability is more closely related to your growing conditions, and less to the plant itself. Oncidiums generally prefer evenly moist medium that stays airy, so choose one that provides that in your growing conditions and stick to it.

Your plant is a medium, to low-light grower that prefers intermediate temperatures.

No need to feed it until you get a decent root system on the plant. KelpMax can certainly help with that.

Ooooo an asnwer! Thank you! Okay, since it's basically sitting on TOP of the medium and the roots are so shallow I can't exactly 'plant' it. What do you suggest? I have not been able to get lush root growth to go down into ANY potting medium - hence my confusion whether to mount or not. it's essentially just sitting there and can be lifted right off the top of the bark and moss. ugh.

Do you recommend soaking the few roots I have in a kelp max bath for a good long time in its current flopper state and then wiring the plant in to stabilize in the existing pot ? It has zero support unless I bury it down deep, the pot has tiny holes for air all around, that shouldn't be a problem for wet rot. The roots seem so fine for bulkier bark but yet they didn't take to the small chip fancy onc mix either. In fact it seems they hated it!


It does get air circulation and is about 20" from grow lights in a South facing window (but basically zero light coming in). I figured that was okay. I could move her back to be with the phals in the other South window but don't want to change too much in this survival phase.

[Dollythehun]

Could we have a picture please? It sounds like your pot is way too big. Could you wrap moss around it and put it in a smaller pot? (Although I agree w Ray to stop repotting.)

[twinkie]

Sure! It's a sad creature, I feel so badly... it's only been repotted twice in about 3 years, the most recent was ummm 5 months ago I believe....too many family crises going on and no attention to it, last ditch attempt to save it....

Don't shriek when you see the pic. It's bad....

[twinkie]

Originally Posted by Dollythehun

Could we have a picture please? It sounds like your pot is way too big. Could you wrap moss around it and put it in a smaller pot? (Although I agree w Ray to stop repotting.)

I'm willing to try anything, that sounds good to me. A smaller nest, moisture...those roots are just not what am used to with phals....

[Dollythehun]

Originally Posted by twinkie

I'm willing to try anything, that sounds good to me. A smaller nest, moisture...those roots are just not what am used to with phals....

My oncidium tribe does grow roots above the medium. Not all of them but, occasionally they do exactly what youre's is doing. Also, the pleated leaves show that at some point in time it's been underwatered.

This is what I would do: wrap it in some moss as best you can, put it in a smaller pot and leave it alone. Where do you live? Here I can flower them in a southeast window.

It's NOT going to have phal like roots. It's not a phal, it's a totally different tribe.

I'm sorry to hear about your family problems but, stop beating yourself up. Life happens to all of us and we do the best we can. Some plants just aren't as robust as others. Eventually we weed them out.

[twinkie]

Originally Posted by Dollythehun

My oncidium tribe does grow roots above the medium. Not all of them but, occasionally they do exactly what youre's is doing. Also, the pleated leaves show that at some point in time it's been underwatered.

Yes, even when it had 'better' roots when I first bought it it's like the just wouldn't go 'down' ever into the bark or small chips. I know they're not like phal's, but just mean the roots are much smaller, delicate and darn fussy...

Originally Posted by Dollythehun

This is what I would do: wrap it in some moss as best you can, put it in a smaller pot and leave it alone. Where do you live? Here I can flower them in a southeast window.

I'm in the rainy dark Pacific Northwest. I'll try the moss trick, someone mentioned semi hydro, not sure what that is, ummm do these kinds of roots 'take' to a long soaking? The plant was never all that healthy looking when I ordered it online. The pbulbs were never 'plump' and it's just gone downhill slowly as I've struggled to figure out what it wants.

---------- Post added at 04:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Dusty Ol' Man

I am not an expert grower like some of the others who have responded, but one thing I know, and it has been confirmed by those here, if it has roots growing, leave it alone. As far as the instability is concerned, get a stick (chopsticks work well for this size), put it in the pot near the center, tie the plant to it. Then just keep it watered until the roots take to the medium. If it has good roots, yes, even just one or two, it will be ok.

Thanks! I will stake tomorrow, the poor thing just sits on top and flops around, it does have two or three viable white roots, it's TRYING !

---------- Post added at 04:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Dollythehun

Thanks DOM. I was going to suggest that too but, as is the norm lately, I forgot! It might not hurt to lightly tent it too. IDK what twinkie's humidity level is.

An expert is someone who comes from out of town with a briefcase. 😆

Hmmm! I was actually wondering about some version of 'tenting' yesterday. What's the pro way to do that? Would putting any old clear plastic bag over it do the trick? My humidity runs from about 68% to a bad low of 30'ish when the furnace runs on super cold nights. I usually mist the top moss and bark heavy every day and then run some water through every other. I've been confused if it's too dry, too wet, so yo-yo'd on that.

---------- Post added at 04:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 AM ----------

Originally Posted by estación seca

Oncidiums like evenly moist roots. Most people use either small bark or sphagnum moss. They only grow new roots from new vegetative growth. It's best not to repot unless new roots have just begun forming. When you repot you damage roots. If the plant repotted at the wrong time doesn't make new growth and roots for a while, it will struggle to take up enough water to survive.

Next time it begins making new roots, consider repotting into a pot with no holes, and either small bark or sphagnum moss. If you tend to overwater use the bark. If you forget to water use moss.

Hmmm, well I went from the 'oncidium mix' from a well known orchid site because it was bone dry back to bark with spaghnum, not sure if I have 'new' roots but they're not very long, maybe 2". When I first got it it had many more roots but they were very thin, white and shallow, almost like garlic or leek bulb roots. The ones showing now are thicker and less 'shreddy' looking. Okay, so I could pot in a mix with more moss inside a smaller pot with no holes, tent, soak roots possibly with kelp max, I think I'll err towards over-watering side for now since it's dry inside here.
My phals are blooming up a storm, sending out so many new roots, arial roots this year and bigger better blooms and pfffffttt this oncidium is just not having it.

---------- Post added at 04:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:23 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Orchidtinkerer

these crinkled leaves are an indicator things are not right.
I still haven't figured out what causes folded up leaves like those as it does not happen here but I have received a few oncidium type orchids with folded leaves like that - always on a weak plant. I suspect it is caused but I am not certain as I have never been present when it was done that it is caused by irregular watering or a complete lack of a root system due to rot.

It has been mentioned the substrate and the pot should be tailored to the state of the orchid. I like to use semi-hydro on orchids with few roots till roots reach down into the pot as a rootless orchid needs to be watered daily otherwise. Then once big enough it can be potted on so I will suggest semi hydro even if it might be the 6th repot you do, better to do 6 repots and find what keeps it happy than to call it quits after 5 and leave it in something it might not be happy in. Not saying it isn't happy, just that a near rootless orchid will need to be sprayed daily. No point picking something that needs daily care and a crisis stops that from happening, better to go for semi hydro which can be left for a week by itself.

Also leave out the fertilizer till it produces new growth. It should be getting rain water which should be all it needs. Tap water will not be as good as its PH will most likely be off, it won't have the micro nutrients rain water has and will have excess calcium causing other nutrients to get locked out so pick rain water if you can, then you don't need to compensate with fertiliser which a weak plant cannot handle well.

Hmmm, I will search this semi hydro. Is there an easy nutshell answer how to do that? I even left this plant inside the pot in my soaking tub overnight a few times thinking I could magically get it to 'drink' and show me it could respond to something, anything by a prolonged bath session.
I do collect rainwater (free gallons here, my goodness it's constantly raining) and make sure it's indoors and room temp before soaking plants.
This plant will actually 'lift' right out of the darn pot and float up if I'm not careful how I introduce the water, it's never set down roots ( I know, I keep whining about that...lol ).
I thank you all for this help, am going to make an applied effort and give it a good 5-6 months. If I can't crack the code by then I'll donate it to an orchid rescue place in town. I don't like defeat though. Phals are super easy to grow, my Zygo is easy, everybody else just putts along except THIS one, and natch it's the one I most want to see finally bloom but we're very very far away from that event.

[Dollythehun]

Originally Posted by twinkie

Yes, even when it had 'better' roots when I first bought it it's like the just wouldn't go 'down' ever into the bark or small chips. I know they're not like phal's, but just mean the roots are much smaller, delicate and darn fussy...


I'm in the rainy dark Pacific Northwest. I'll try the moss trick, someone mentioned semi hydro, not sure what that is, ummm do these kinds of roots 'take' to a long soaking? The plant was never all that healthy looking when I ordered it online. The pbulbs were never 'plump' and it's just gone downhill slowly as I've struggled to figure out what it wants.

---------- Post added at 04:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 AM ----------



Thanks! I will stake tomorrow, the poor thing just sits on top and flops around, it does have two or three viable white roots, it's TRYING !

---------- Post added at 04:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 AM ----------



Hmmm! I was actually wondering about some version of 'tenting' yesterday. What's the pro way to do that? Would putting any old clear plastic bag over it do the trick? My humidity runs from about 68% to a bad low of 30'ish when the furnace runs on super cold nights. I usually mist the top moss and bark heavy every day and then run some water through every other. I've been confused if it's too dry, too wet, so yo-yo'd on that.

---------- Post added at 04:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 AM ----------



Hmmm, well I went from the 'oncidium mix' from a well known orchid site because it was bone dry back to bark with spaghnum, not sure if I have 'new' roots but they're not very long, maybe 2". When I first got it it had many more roots but they were very thin, white and shallow, almost like garlic or leek bulb roots. The ones showing now are thicker and less 'shreddy' looking. Okay, so I could pot in a mix with more moss inside a smaller pot with no holes, tent, soak roots possibly with kelp max, I think I'll err towards over-watering side for now since it's dry inside here.
My phals are blooming up a storm, sending out so many new roots, arial roots this year and bigger better blooms and pfffffttt this oncidium is just not having it.

---------- Post added at 04:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:23 AM ----------



Hmmm, I will search this semi hydro. Is there an easy nutshell answer how to do that? I even left this plant inside the pot in my soaking tub overnight a few times thinking I could magically get it to 'drink' and show me it could respond to something, anything by a prolonged bath session.
I do collect rainwater (free gallons here, my goodness it's constantly raining) and make sure it's indoors and room temp before soaking plants.
This plant will actually 'lift' right out of the darn pot and float up if I'm not careful how I introduce the water, it's never set down roots ( I know, I keep whining about that...lol ).
I thank you all for this help, am going to make an applied effort and give it a good 5-6 months. If I can't crack the code by then I'll donate it to an orchid rescue place in town. I don't like defeat though. Phals are super easy to grow, my Zygo is easy, everybody else just putts along except THIS one, and natch it's the one I most want to see finally bloom but we're very very far away from that event.

Going back to the beginning: Ray said to quit repotting. I agree. Put in the chopsticks, tent it w a vegetable bag, water more often, and give it a chance. It does need more light than phals, but, I have bloomed them in the same window.

[Dusty Ol' Man]

I am not an expert grower like some of the others who have responded, but one thing I know, and it has been confirmed by those here, if it has roots growing, leave it alone. As far as the instability is concerned, get a stick (chopsticks work well for this size), put it in the pot near the center, tie the plant to it. Then just keep it watered until the roots take to the medium. If it has good roots, yes, even just one or two, it will be ok.