Orchid Disease Transmission Question

[SouthPark]

Thanks Roberta! I'll see if I can grab a test kit sometime, and test mine. I won't be surprised if it really does have that particular virus.

Do you remember or recall which particular virus it is? Very interesting case. I was thinking that AOS and other sites should probably include information about this sort of thing ------ at the beginning of their discussion pages on viruses.

[Roberta]

As I recall it was Cymbidium Mosiac virus (CymMV)... been awhile, but I remember it since I see that one only rarely (Odontoglossum Ringspot Virus I have seen more often) I would have never tested Porcia 'Cannizaro' if I had not gotten info about it, since there is nothing about the plant or its flowers that would raise suspicions. Generally I test when a plant is doing poorly, or has really suspicious markings - which often are nothing - or color break in the flowers, which is a huge red flag.

Just an interesting little tidbit... Tulip mania, in the Netherlands in the 17th century... a speculative bubble if ever there was one... Bulbs got bid up to astronomical prices. There were some, with variegation in the flowers, that were in particularly high demand. Over time, those did not grow well. Now we know that they were virused. So it's not only orchids. (Now, selective breeding has brought us healthy tulips with interesting color patterns. Unfortunately, they don't grow well where I live, alas, they need cold winters)

[SouthPark]

Thanks very much Roberta. Thanks for your time and the heads-up on that case. Still definitely surprised that I had seen no mention of it from AOS etc.

I'm now wondering if they should have a list placed at the top of their virus discussions pages - not just AOS, but any site - for good measure.

Thanks for mentioning it again Roberta. Knowing is definitely better than not knowing.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Folks ought to at least test them... the original FCC/AOS plant was virused, and so clones from it are too.

Roberta ------ I find it highly unusual that there appears to be absolutely no mention of warnings on the internet about the situation of every single Ctt. Porcia 'Cannizaro' is virused (aside from OrchidBoard and one orchid society article you wrote Roberta about Ctt. Porcia 'Cannizaro').

If I could see just a single mention of it in google searches etc, then that would be something. But to find no remarks about it is very unexpected.

Will the people up top at AOS etc confirm the situation? If they do, then all orchid societies around the world should be notified about this.

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by SouthPark

Roberta ------ I find it highly unusual that there appears to be absolutely no mention of warnings on the internet about the situation of every single Ctt. Porcia 'Cannizaro' is virused (aside from OrchidBoard and one orchid society article you wrote Roberta about Ctt. Porcia 'Cannizaro').

If I could see just a single mention of it in google searches etc, then that would be something. But to find no remarks about it is very unexpected.

Will the people up top at AOS etc confirm the situation? If they do, then all orchid societies around the world should be notified about this.

I think this one is "just check". I saw a note about it on a forum years ago, noted by one of the most prolific and knowledgeable hybridizers around, so I checked mine. And yup... I have also heard it from knowledgeable orchid society members... who have verified it on their own plants. AOS doesn't keep a registry of this sort of detail on plants... I expect there are other legacy plants that have the issue that I don't know about.
While societies will certainly have a policy about diseased plants, nobody is going to test every plant going into a show to enforce it. Fortunately, plants (especially asymptomatic ones) are very unlikely to spread virus in a show setting (plants don't sneeze or cough).

I do suggest that you get your hands on a batch of test kits, for your own collection. Especially if you obtain plants from legacy collections. I know one local grower who died, and bequeathed a large collection including some magnificent specimen Catts, to one of our societies. Upon testing, something like 40% of the plants turned out to be virused. The grower had been known to practice good hygiene, flaming tools etc., but it happened anyway. I'm sure some of those plants were in many shows over the years. I saw one that someone had bought before the testing... a gorgeous, floriferous coerulea Catt. I don't know if the owner tested it or had contact with the society. You sure would not guess by looking at the plant.

[SouthPark]

Thanks for mentioning that Roberta! The main weirdness/oddity was just regarding the pretty much zero discussion or mention of this particular thing on the internet. I expected that - for an orchid of this particular sort - that at least somebody else would have mentioned something more about it - online that is. That's the thing that raises my eyebrow (Spock style heheh).

I will eventually look around for test kits to try out! So far - even though it is possible or even highly probably at some of my orchids are virus carriers --- including Ctt. Porcia 'Cannizaro' ------ I've never seen on any one of my plants symptoms (colour breaks, leaves with ring patterns, concentric ring patterns, slowed/stunted growth etc) ----- which is good.

I certainly prefer my orchids to not have viruses - especially not have their health go backwards (with fatal consequences) or have their flowers with colour breaks or abnormal pattern/streak/textures). Will eventually get around to grabbing some test strips though!

And back to the Ctt. Porcia 'Cannizaro' - if indeed every single one of these divisions or clones have a virus -- then that would be highly disappointing in that details of this remain pretty much zero on the internet, or possibly even among orchid growers. That's really disappointing.

It would also be excellent to try gather some details - such as which hybridiser gave the first (welcomed) whistle-blow, and whether this was confirmed by whoever developed Ctt. Porcia 'Cannizaro'.

I do agree that growers may have (or even will have) orchids that are infected by some sort of virus, and people accepting the situation as parts of life or nature.

But an orchid that is probably grown by lots of growers like Ctt. Porcia 'Cannizaro' - where it is now mentioned that every single one of these plants of this particular cultivar contains a virus ------- then it should made to become known by growers and orchid societies - everywhere. That's the oddity - about it going under the radar like that. That sort of situation is unsatisfactory for sure.

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by SouthPark

And back to the Ctt. Porcia 'Cannizaro' - if indeed every single one of these divisions or clones have a virus -- then that would be highly disappointing in that details of this remain pretty much zero on the internet, or possibly even among orchid growers. That's really disappointing.

It would also be excellent to try gather some details - such as which hybridiser gave the first (welcomed) whistle-blow, and whether this was confirmed by whoever developed Ctt. Porcia 'Cannizaro'.

Remember, this is REALLY old news. This particular cultivar got an AM/AOS in 1951. So it likely even predates your parents. At that time, nobody knew about orchid viruses, certainly not how to test for them. It received an FCC/AOS in 1988. (Which would have been either a division or a mericlone of the original... that's what the cultivar name implies, the exact same plant or a clone that is genetically identical. Mericloning has been around for a long time, I think some time in the 1960's or very shortly thereafter.) The FCC/AOS is a lot more recent, but still before virus testing was easy if it existed at all. By the time the testing happened, I think that you can assume that the hybridizer (and for that matter, the first owner who exhibited it ) were long gone from the earth. So the plant was cloned long before this issue was even on the radar screen. And once it was known, I imagine that people talked about it for awhile, but we're still talking about years... the news of the day moves on. The internet in 1988 was pretty rudimentary. Dial-up modems. (How long do people stay interested in an issue on Facebook? Maybe 5 minutes?)

History of virus testing... it depends on the polymerase chain reaction, which wasn't even discovered until 1983 - got the discoverer a Nobel Prize. So the application to virus testing for orchids would have been well after the award.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Remember, this is REALLY old news.

It is old news. But is significant news. So an orchid that is suspected of having every single one of its clones or divisions containing an orchid virus is something very important that growers today should know about.

So if this is indeed the case for Ctt. Porcia 'Cannizaro', then broadcasts should be made to orchid societies around the world - just to make sure that everybody knows about it, rather than face the likelihood that only a relative small number of people knows about it. This is a case of helping some growers out here - around the world that is.

[Roberta]

I think in fairness, the other old cultivars that probably have a similar issue would have to be included as well. (That would require testing the actual source plant, awarded or otherwise) Frankly, if you have something with this much history, probably safe to assume a high probability of virus infection (a significant number of plants aren't weakened by it, it tends to survive the mericloning process) and manage your collection accordingly. (If you go to the emergency room, even before COVID-19, you'd find it to be standard practice for the nurses and doctors to put on masks and gloves... even for a broken bone, they assume possible disease and take care to not spread stuff from one patient to another)

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by Roberta

I think in fairness, the other old cultivars that probably have a similar issue would have to be included as well.

That is certainly necessary. Absolutely necessary. A formal list should be created - eg. by AOS etc, and shared with the public. A list that can be updated by database on some schedule.