some basic questions about new orchids

[fredr]

Today I drove to Venice, FL to look at some orchids at the Spring sale of Fender's Flora. I wound up buying 55 of them. :-( They had a 20% off special if you bought some quantity. Most are small in 2 or 3 inch pots. A few special ones came in 4 inch pots but they were already listed at $30 or more. Many of the orchids had really high prices which really threw me for a loop but I guess that's the world we travel in.

Anyway, my question - Just how are seedlings handled at orchid shows? Are they even ligitimate? They had tables and tables of seedlings with a motherplant or a picture shown to see what one is buying. But upon further discussion with them they told me that one doesn't really know what the seedling will look like when it blooms. Only mericlones are identical. Ok, I can understand the exact genetic clone thing but the hybrids have me confused.

So you cross two or more intergeneric hybrids (I suppose each has been registered) and get whatever children will come in the seedlings. The seedlings then are only named by their cross, right? Since they all can look different, can they all compete under the same general description? Who winds up naming these various new plants? Am I correct in understanding that the bloom of such a seedling can get registered and then named so that the label would list the parents along with the given name in quotes? How in the world is this kept straight? Who decides that a flower is different from another? It all seems rather complicated to me.

A really pretty newly named such example could then be mericloned to get more of the same, right?

Do I have this generally straight? The main reason I'm asking is because the growers asked me to send them pictures of any outstanding seedlings once they show themselves. It's like they have no idea as to what they came up with yet they sell the seedlings to look like some sample they have there which is already blooming.

I just never thought about all this until I saw a grower in action. I fugured they seed orchids like other flowers and get the same orchid over and over again. I guess the difference is the cross they produced which will bring unkown results, right?

Do I have this generally straight?

Fred

[goodgollymissmolly]

Fred,I think you have it correct, but you confuse me a little.

Let's assume I breed A to B (the pod parent is A). Then I can identify all the resulting seedlings as A x B. They will all be different but should resemble each other to some extent.

If I register this cross with RHS (or if it is already registered) then it will have a name. Let's say it is named Sam. Then ALL seedlings from a cross of AxB or BxA will be forever known as Sam. Sam is known as the Grex name. This is the only name registered by the International Cultivar Registration Authority (RHS in the case of orchids).

Now if one of these seedlings grows up and wins an award it gets another name to identify the exact plant. This name is not registered by the ICRA (RHS). Instead it is recorded by the awarding organization. So the awarded plant would become Genus name followed by Grex name (Sam) followed by cultivar name in single quotes, followed by the awarding organization identification.

So lets say that your Sam was a Cattleya and the awarded name you chose was 'Alice',and it won an AM at an AOS sponsored judging. Then the plant would be known as:

Cattleya Sam 'Alice' AM/AOS

[fredr]

Originally Posted by goodgollymissmolly

Fred,I think you have it correct, but you confuse me a little.

That's funny - I confuse you?

Now if one of these seedlings grows up and wins an award it gets another name to identify the exact plant. This name is not registered by the ICRA (RHS). Instead it is recorded by the awarding organization. So the awarded plant would become Genus name followed by Grex name (Sam) followed by cultivar name in single quotes, followed by the awarding organization identification.

So lets say that your Sam was a Cattleya and the awarded name you chose was 'Alice',and it won an AM at an AOS sponsored judging. Then the plant would be known as:

Cattleya Sam 'Alice' AM/AOS

In other words 'Alice' does not come into play until AFTER the plant wins an award? During the competition it's still only called Sam?

Fred

[Grandma M]

Do you have a list of what you bought? We would love to know.

[quiltergal]

To take it just a bit further Fred, many times with seedlings it may be the first of this particular cross the grower has done. Perhaps 1 or 2 have bloomed out. Just like people there can be a wide variety in appearance among siblings. I'm a brunette and my sister is blonde, but we have the same parents so for all intents and purposes we are the same seedling cross. We do have some similarities in appearance but because of genetics we look very different.

Because there is such variety in seedings it's kind of a gamble when you purchase one because you only have a vague idea of what it might look like. You may end up with something entirely different than what the breeder has seen. The breeder has all the rights to choosing and registering the grex name unless they give you permission to do so.

If your seedling produces an amazing flower that looks completely different or only slightly different the breeder wants pictures so they have a better idea of what to expect from that cross.

The only time you get a genetically identical plant/flower is if you buy a mericlone. And even that isn't a 100% sure thing. Mutations can occur in the cloning process that will throw something that looks entirely different from the parent. That said, you have a much better chance of "getting the flower in the picture" if you buy a clone.

Clear as mud right?

[Shirley]

Thanks Terri and Goodgollymissmolly for that simplified lesson. Very interesting and useful to know.

[fredr]

Yes, thanks. I think I have the basic naming thing down pat now.

I'm still having problems using this board though. I can't seem to find where I've posted and where there are responses. I do have instant mail notification set. I guess that is the only way to know when you get a response, right?

[fredr]

Oh, that list. No I still have everything in a big box. I guess I should write this up. I just got a spreadsheet to enter everything to but I can't reallty enter that info directly without first hand copying the names. Will do so right now.

[fredr]

Ok, here's the list with whatever description I could find from the grower, Fender's Flora:

Brassolaeliocattleya:
(1) Blc. Dawson City 'Mendenhall' X Blc. Oconee 'Mendenhall' AM/AOS
Our first offering of this new orchid. The goal is Red, Big Fragrant Reds with good growth habit on vigorous plants. The offspring should be similar to the frequently awarded Blc. Chia Lin. In other words, this will be a great orchid!

(1) Blc. Buttercup `Bozo`, HCC/AOS x Blc. Pamela Heatherington Buttercup `Bozo`, HCC/AOS was awarded to Gene Crocker. Here the combination with the massive pink Pamela Heatherington will give very soft colors in the peach tones, similar to Blc. George King
`Serendipity`, AM/AOS.

(5) Blc. Michael Gaine 'Orchidglade II' x Blc. Dream Trader 'RJM'
This hybrid is a backdoor approach to a remake of Blc. Goldenzelle (Fortune x Horace). Blc. Fortune is one parent of Michael Gaine and C. Horace is one parent of Blc. Dream Trader. Michael Gaine is a strong yellow-gold with a bold red picotee. Dream Trader is an exceptionally nice, large pink which introduces the spring-blooming C. mosiae. Colors of this new hybrid, an exclusive of Fender`s Flora, will range from yellow/pumpkin to rosy pinks with a fall and spring bloom season. The flowers will be fragrant, too.

(5) Blc. Chia Lin 'New City' AM/AOS x Pot. Beauford Gold 'Susan Fender' AM/AOS
Chia is BIG, it`s RED, and AHHHH so fragrant. You can`t miss with this standard cattleya which blooms in the fall and is very long-lasting. It recently received an award of merit from the American Orchid Society. The awarded plant was grown by a friend in Hawaii. Our Potinara Beaufort Gold `Susan Fender`, AM/AOS is the highest awarded of many Beaufort Golds. It had 9 flowers and 3 buds when awarded in Savannah, GA. A great friend, Dave Hill, used it in his exhibit and actually cut off 3 flowers to make the orchid "look better" in his exhibit! It is vigorous, compact, and blooms on every new growth. All of these seem to be good reasons to use her as a parent.

(5) Blc. Love Sound 'Dogashima' AM/AOS x Blc. Arabesque 'Golden Zebra' AM/AOS

(5) Blc. Orglades Charm 'Linell' AM/AOS x Lc. Royal Emperor 'Wade' AM/AOS
In this new cross, the awarded Orglade`s Charm has been line bred with one of its parents, Royal Emperor. The ruby red Royal Emperor will reintroduce that glowing color to produce large, long-lasting, fragrant reds and saturated oranges on standard-sized cattleyas types that bloom for the Fall shows. This is the first offering of our Fender`s Flora exclusive.

(5) Blc. Bouton D`Or x Slc. Barefoot Mailman
Blc. Bouton D`Or is combined with an offspring of Laelia briegeri, Slc. Barefoot Mailman. This time a strong, compact red is introduced.
The new and yet unnamed combination has bloomed with round, rosy pinks on small plants. The flowers will be very well displayed - important! This will be a compact grower and primarily a spring bloomer.

Potinara:
(1) Pot. Susan Fender 'Cinnamon Stick' AM/AOS
(5) Pot. Burana Beauty 'Burana' x Pot. Little Toshie 'Gold Country' AM/AOS
This combination of free flowering yellows with bright ted flares involves 30 different cattleya-type species. The family tree is mind boggling! `Gold Country` is our favorite Little Toshie because it is a great grower and blooms well in our Florida heat. Burana Beauty just puts up lots of new growth and blooms in the fall and spring on all the new growth. No tricks here, just good growers and easy bloomers. This is a our own hybrid and a Fender`s Flora exclusive.

(5) Pot. Jimmy Cook 'Golden Beach' x Blc. Bryce Canyon 'Splendiferous' AM/AOS
Bryce Canyon was famous even before it was awarded in 1972. As one of many incredible orchids produced on the west coast, it is still a prize winner at any event. Jimmy Cook is relatively new. We have selected several yellow forms to use in our next generation breeding. Blc. George King is a parent of Jimmy Cook and we love the compact growth habit and numerous new leads this passes on to its children. We are expecting bright, sparkling rose shades from this cross, a long winter through spring bloom season and sweet fragrance.

(1) Pot. Paradise Rose 'Fuschia' (Slc. Pink Doll x Blc. Toshis Aoki)

(5) Pot. Little Toshie 'Gold Country' AM/AOS x Blc. Goldenzelle 'High Noon' AM/AOS

Laeliocattleya:
(5) Lc. Jalapa x Pot. Memoria Mario Lanza '#5'
Do you like dark flowers? Jalapa will increase the flower count and make the offspring more compact. Mario Lanza combines Pot. Carolina Splendor (an Oconee hybrid) with Chocolate Drop. A long winter through spring bloom season amd numerous dark red flowers on compact plants will make this hybrid a winner.



Cattleya:
(1) C. Peckhaviensis (C. schilleriana x C. aclandiae)
The combination of these two gorgeous species is producing large flowers in proportion to the small-growing parents - kind of a macho flower on a petite plant! The chocolate to olive-colored flowers will be heavily blotched with mahogany. The lip will be standing: wide and plum. You will sense the fragrance before you see the flowers. These two species are the background of nearly all spotted, compact catts.


Sophrolaeliocattleya:
(1) Slc. Brasstown 'Neon Glow' JC/AOS
This is a mericlone of our awarded Slc. Brasstown `Neon Glow` which received a Judge`s Commendation for its very unusual neon blue lavender picotee on the petals and lip. This is a mutation from the mericloning of Slc. Brass Town `Lipstick`, HCC/AOS. There were no other plants that produced flowers with this neon picotee. This is our first offering of this mericlone. These are winter bloomers and are standard-sized with clusters of 4 inch flowers. We have had this orchid for over 10 years and it has always produced the exact same flowers. Very unusual!!! The first mericlone has just bloomed and it also has the picotee!

(5) Slc. Red Jewel x Blc. Delta 'Tangerglow' AM/AOS

[quiltergal]

Wow! You have some great breeding in those plants! What fun to wait and see what you get. I have seen or actually own some of the parent plants. Chia Lin 'New City' AM/AOS is a huge red....make lots of room for that cross. The Brasstown 'Neon Glow' sounds amazing. I'll have to go look that one up. Congrats on acquiring some great possiblities!