Desperate to save mature Phal orchid

[Ellzeena]

Long story short: 15 yo orchid in constant bloom, enormous and healthy, developed air roots was climbing out of pot and supplier of potting stuff gave me the worst advice in the world. Plant almost died. Has been in hospital care. Clear slotted pot, sphagnum moss (its usual medium), saw green mold so unpotted. Stem easily 7 inches long, was soft, cut in half, sprayed with hydrogen peroxide, saw thrips, sprayed with organic compound used once before many years ago, saw new root buds just starting (had to cut off yet another yellowing large leaf), repotted in sphagnum moss smaller pot; has one new leaf that is curling but not blackened. Watched Miss Orchid or someone on YT. She says do not pot but place plant in cup with sphagnum moss at bottom that is kept moist until roots begin to grow enough to pot again (and obviously do not feed). This plant means a lot to me. She wants to survive very badly. Am I doing the right thing by repotting? Did not cut stem off completely, SHOULD I? how to supply new root buds with humidity since they won't be able to absorb water? ANY HELP SO APPRECIATED.

[aliceinwl]

A photo would really help. What exactly do you mean by the “stem”: the spent flower spike or the part the leaves branch off? Does it have any surviving air roots? What exactly did you do that caused the problem? Was this the first time it was repotted? What are your temperatures like?

In the mean time, don’t spray it with hydrogen peroxide, this can do a lot of damage.

If it has air roots, you could potentially bury those in the media and repot it right away. If it doesn’t, KelpMax is a great product for spurring root growth.

[Ellzeena]

Originally Posted by aliceinwl

A photo would really help. What exactly do you mean by the “stem”: the spent flower spike or the part the leaves branch off? Does it have any surviving air roots? What exactly did you do that caused the problem? Was this the first time it was repotted? What are your temperatures like?

In the mean time, don’t spray it with hydrogen peroxide, this can do a lot of damage.

If it has air roots, you could potentially bury those in the media and repot it right away. If it doesn’t, KelpMax is a great product for spurring root growth.

The "stem" is what is under the orchid body, a structure that supports the orchid, I don't know any other word for it and it is the word used by the orchid expert I have been studying. It can give an indication of the age of the orchid. In this case, it was at least 7 inches long. This orchid has been repotted many times over the past 10 years with no shock result or any damage. Burying the air roots is what caused the smothering of the plant! A photo of what it used to look like wouldn't be helpful. It has one air root and, at its base just over a leaf that yellowed and was removed, are three bulbuous roots beginning to emerge. Whether or not they are air roots I don't yet know. The repotting that caused the problem was very bad advice from the merchant I always buy supplies from. The pot was too large but the orchid had already come out of its former pot which was way too small. All roots were in fine shape (and there were MANY roots). I placed it into its new pot but burying the air roots and the size of the pot totally messed it up. Because I pay it close attention, I knew there was a problem. I unpotted it; most of its roots were black and flat (not plump), I removed them with sterilized tool, repotted again, and slowly a new leaf began to emerge. However, I noticed another leaf was curling and blackening and the new leaf (much smaller of course than normal) was also curling and knew it had to be examined. Took it out of that pot and media and examined closely. Sprayed "stem" and also cut it back (it should not have been soft enough to easily do that) with hydrogen peroxide because there was an obvious problem; saw thrips, treated those also; repotted again in smaller pot. This was about four days ago, watered of course, then put it back into its normal location. The pot it is in is slotted clear plastic. The medium is sphagnum moss with some bark (bark on the bottom of pot), it is sitting on a humidity tray. My question is about watering: sphagnum moss dries quickly but there are no roots in the medium just those appearing at the actual stem of the plant (not the part of the plant that descends from the bottom of the plant). I'm uncertain what to do about watering as the moss will develop mold or other such. Should the plant be taken out of its medium, placed in a clear smaller pot with moss at the bottom that is always moist and wait for the new roots to grow so it can be potted? This plant is trying to survive, it is very loved, I don't want to lose it but at this point what I'm doing is keeping it alive and I want to encourage it to develop new roots (not air roots). You are not supposed to bury air roots, one of the things they told me that contributed to its present condition. Will the humidity tray and the slots in the pot provide sufficient humidity or does it require actual watering or water applied to the new emerging roots? I am in NY, at night my apartment is cool (68 degrees), during the day it is about 73 degrees, it has been in this environment for more than 8 year. TY.

[Ray]

Please learn to use paragraphs. One, long series of sentences is very difficult to read, discouraging folks from trying to help.

Green growth in the moss is likely algae, not mold. Nothing to be concerned about, except as an indicator that there may be too much nitrogen being applied.

Whenever you repot, it is likely the plant will lose some of its old roots. The bigger the difference between the old and new conditions within the potting medium, the greater the loss will likely be.

If there is an open wound, you may leave it in the air for a day or two to dry up.

At this point, I'd do the following:

• Pot it up in whatever medium and pot size you think you can do best with.
• Water it in with water containing 1 ounce of KelpMax per gallon.
• Invert a clear plastic bag over the plant and pot, trapping humidity around it. Don't seal the bag, just slip it over it all.
• Move it to a VERY warm and shady location.
• Whenever, over the next few weeks, the medium gets dry, water it in with the KelpMax solution.

Chances are that with the extra humidity to prevent desiccation, the plant will recover nicely.

[Ellzeena]

Originally Posted by Ray

Please learn to use paragraphs. One, long series of sentences is very difficult to read, discouraging folks from trying to help.

Green growth in the moss is likely algae, not mold. Nothing to be concerned about, except as an indicator that there may be too much nitrogen being applied.

Whenever you repot, it is likely the plant will lose some of its old roots. The bigger the difference between the old and new conditions within the potting medium, the greater the loss will likely be.

If there is an open wound, you may leave it in the air for a day or two to dry up.

At this point, I'd do the following:

• Pot it up in whatever medium and pot size you think you can do best with.
• Water it in with water containing 1 ounce of KelpMax per gallon.
• Invert a clear plastic bag over the plant and pot, trapping humidity around it. Don't seal the bag, just slip it over it all.
• Move it to a VERY warm and shady location.
• Whenever, over the next few weeks, the medium gets dry, water it in with the KelpMax solution.

Chances are that with the extra humidity to prevent desiccation, the plant will recover nicely.

TY but I don't think you understand the problem. This plant went from flowering constantly and growing huge leaves to almost dead because of bad advice I was given. I have been struggling to keep it alive.

It has always been in sphagnum moss. I have repotted it many times, never shocked, always kept growing. By "stem" I mean (probably) the rhizome. It has almost complete deteriorated. The plant was visibly dehydrated even though the medium was soggy; I repotted it 3x since this horror began. It had multiple healthy roots during the first repot; second repot, almost all roots dead. Now, no roots at all except for one apparent thick air root.

I cannot change the environment; my apt. is as described, there is no window that is fully shaded but the orchids are protected by lace curtain from sunlight in AM hours.

So you still suggest the plastic bag? The orchid has no roots. The roots apparently growing from the base may be air roots I can't tell yet. It had thrips. I treated it for thrips. I no longer see them. So leave it in the sphagnum moss medium and water it how often since it has no roots? What about the roots just showing, apply water to them? I have no idea what to do that's why I'm on this board.

TY.

[Roberta]

Photos would really help. In one place you're saying "no roots" but later you mention roots growing from the base Air roots are roots...

To post photos, click the Go Advanced button, scroll down to "Manage Attachments". You'll get a pop-up screen that will let you select photos from your computer. Then be sure to click "upload".

[Ellzeena]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Photos would really help. In one place you're saying "no roots" but later you mention roots growing from the base Air roots are roots...

To post photos, click the Go Advanced button, scroll down to "Manage Attachments". You'll get a pop-up screen that will let you select photos from your computer. Then be sure to click "upload".

My tablet is unable to take photos that can focus so close to the plant. My phone is also. It has an air root. Three nubs are appearing where there once was a leaf (yellowed). The only photo I have is of this plant in its glory not so long ago. No point in posting that since the plant doesn't at all resemble the photo. I'm surprised it's still alive.

My question is simply: do I continue to water the medium it's in even though it has zero roots extending into the medium or do I suspend the plant over sphagnum moss in a vented small pot with a plastic bag over it to create more humidity until the roots that are beginning to show (as nubs) are long enough to go into the medium (be potted).

TY.

[Clawhammer]

Really going to be hard to truly help without a pic. Its worth the effort.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by Ellzeena

My question is simply: do I continue to water the medium it's in even though it has zero roots extending into the medium or do I suspend the plant over sphagnum moss in a vented small pot with a plastic bag over it to create more humidity until the roots that are beginning to show (as nubs) are long enough to go into the medium (be potted).

Ellzeena --- one method I use is - I pot my orchids in scoria. This is inorganic material, which is pretty good at retaining some moisture in its little nooks and crannies. The pot is a very good free draining one --- regular plastic one, opaque.

I have a phal potted in scoria, which I will take a photo of later today to show you. When I water, I use a water-spray nozzle .... with setting that's sort of 'direct' but not 'too direct'. And I aim the water toward the side (ie. toward the rim) of the pot. Basically watering the media toward the edge (rim) of the pot. It's ok to put some water further in toward the middle too ------ but less.

The orchid roots (or bulk of them) toward the centre of the pot can still get the moisture without being dripping wet for relatively long periods of time.

The results I've had have been excellent. I do pretty much the same thing for most of my other orchids, including phrags, paphs, and catts. I choose scoria pieces size to match root thickness and/or plant size/age.

I reckon the same approach is workable for bark too. Each grower has their own way of keeping root and media conditions under control.

I will mention as well that ------- it is probably beneficial to not use hydrogen peroxide on roots of orchids .... that's if you had. This substance - from my experience - can set the roots back. I found that it has some sort of negative impact on the roots, which also means negative impact on the plant ----- as in setting it back in terms of growing.

Also ... it will be nice later to determine the likely cause of the issue you encountered. Possibly overwatering the spaghnum? Hard to say right now. More information will be needed. All the best!

[SouthPark]

Ellzeena --- I just took these photos a moment ago. For this phal, the scoria size is relatively small as can be seen.

I also took an extra pic (a moment ago) - with other orchids potted in scoria. A couple of orchids about to open their flower buds ------ showing larger pieces of scoria being used for these other kinds of orchids.

Pretty much the same watering method applied for all.

And one more thing too ------ in my tropical environment, my orchids such as phal, phrags, paphs etc ... have no problem with the media drying out totally for a little while.

Generally, roots can stay moist indefinitely under the right conditions (eg. good air movement, not super wet roots etc) ....... but I believe that the occasional dry-out of the media can have certain benefits associated - can help avoid certain unwanted situations.