Like to confirm some things about my Catasetums

[Cymbaline]

Hey Thank You for working with me as I learn about these guys.

I want to verify. I read on the internet that you can start watering and feeding Catasetums when their roots are 3 inches? So I'm checking out the roots in my first two pictures of the same plant and I think I see 3 inch roots. This would mean it's safe to start watering it. Just want to confirm.

Next question about the last picture. I think I made a mistake with repotting this guy. The new bulb , growing off the old one .. The old one is pretty large so I assume the new one will be about that size so my pot maybe too small? What do you think?

Thank you for your help.

[DirtyCoconuts]

without knowing more about your environment and culture, i, (not an expert) would start watering the first one and I would also repot the second one.

Now is a great time to repot the second one as there are no new roots to damage.

it looks like this is indoors and you seems to have a bark and sphag mix. As i grow outside and in almost exclusively INorganic medium for these plants, i would take my advice with a grain of salt

[Clawhammer]

I'd let the roots get a little longer as not many of them have made it to the potting media yet. The main old bulb is shriveled but not too much.

I would repot the second plant.

[Cymbaline]

Originally Posted by DirtyCoconuts

without knowing more about your environment and culture, i, (not an expert) would start watering the first one and I would also repot the second one.

Now is a great time to repot the second one as there are no new roots to damage.

it looks like this is indoors and you seems to have a bark and sphag mix. As i grow outside and in almost exclusively INorganic medium for these plants, i would take my advice with a grain of salt

Thank you! You said INorganic is that like those clay balls?

---------- Post added at 07:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Clawhammer

I'd let the roots get a little longer as not many of them have made it to the potting media yet. The main old bulb is shriveled but not too much.

I would repot the second plant.

Got it! Thank You

[DirtyCoconuts]

Yes, but not the leca. I use lava rock, perlite and a bit of big chunky charcoal. The only thing that breaks down is the charcoal but it last years and years

You could certainly use leca but I use that for my SH plants

[JScott]

I only have two of these, so I'm no expert, but they both do really well every year. I would repot the first one too, and plant it deeper in the pot so that the new growth is closer to the surface of the potting mix, of course being very careful not to damage the roots. My FDK After Dark 'SVO Black Pearl' produces each new growth a little higher on the plant than the previous one, and so every year when I repot it, I pot it a little deeper so that the new growth is flush with the surface of the media, so the roots can grow straight down into the fresh bark. Some of the older bulbs are now buried halfway in the pot, and it hasn't caused any problems with rot or anything. I'm not saying my way is the right way, I'm just sharing how I do it.

[Subrosa]

I started growing in.layered substrate a few years ago and haven't looked back. I put a large rock on the bottom of the pot since I grow outdoors to help prevent the plants from blowing over. Then I fill 2/3 of the way with cow manure and top off with cedar mulch. By the time new roots are long enough to reach the manure the plant can use all that fertilizer. I stopped worrying about how long the roots are, and don't start watering until the previous years pseudobulb start to shrivel.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by Cymbaline

So I'm checking out the roots in my first two pictures of the same plant and I think I see 3 inch roots. This would mean it's safe to start watering it. Just want to confirm.

Cymbaline ..... you may not have yet come across my tests on catasetum type orchids coming out of true dormancy, where I lightly watered more than 20 catasetum type plants - only to see if those details about getting water on newly emerging roots have a negative impact on the roots and/or orchid. Click Here.

For my next batch of tests, I'm going to very lightly water some of my catasetum type orchids (potted in scoria) during their dormancy - in tropical conditions. And - once they begin to come out of dormancy, I'll do the same light watering test on the emerging roots (again).

Normally, there's a recommendation to not water catasetum type plants during dormancy - which makes sense, because the plant doesn't have any leaves for transpiration anyway.

Similarly, for plant beginning to come out of dormancy, some say that the newly emerging roots are not in a state that absorbs water. That's fair enough too - regardless of whether that's true or not.

Also - the bulb is supposed to be able to support the new growth for a while. Also fair enough.

But - what I've been clearly noticing is that - in my tropical growing conditions, providing suitable growing conditions (good temperatures, and ensuring that the roots get the required oxygen) --- putting a little water on those newly emerging roots, and lightly wetting the media - results in no issue for the catasetum type orchid.

This is meaning that it's not 'unsafe' to water a catasetum type plant when it is coming out of dormancy - provided that temperature range is fine, and provided that the roots get adequate amounts of oxygen.

My recommendation is - follow the general recommendation of not watering during dormancy ------ except for situations where the bulbs appear to be shriveling significantly - in which case ----- add a relatively small amount of water, for which the roots can absorb and plump up the bulb again.

And when the new roots begin to emerge (coming out of dormancy), you can still proceed with waiting for the X inch length method. This is what is generally recommended from many growers. If you do happen to see issues with new growths looking like they're drying up or dying - then very very lightly spray water into the media ..... very small amounts only.

Now, in my view --- one piece of information that some growers are passing on ------ about any water (even relatively small amounts) touching newly emerging roots and killing/stalling them (assuming growing temperature is good and roots are not exposed to oxygen starved conditions) ----- is a myth. It's more like that they're causing some other issue ---- such as very very cold and wet roots, AND/OR creating conditions in the media where the roots are getting starved of oxygen, which then takes down the roots and the new growth, and maybe even the plant.

Also - it is true that existing roots, or at least lots of existing roots of catasetum type plants (during dormancy), or coming out of dormancy ------ remain alive.

[JScott]

I only have two of these type plants, but i always start watering lightly as soon as i see new roots starting, and then let the pot get bone dry before i water again. They both do great year and I've never had a problem. They have tons of roots and get huge.

[Cymbaline]

Originally Posted by SouthPark

Cymbaline ..... you may not have yet come across my tests on catasetum type orchids coming out of true dormancy, where I lightly watered more than 20 catasetum type plants - only to see if those details about getting water on newly emerging roots have a negative impact on the roots and/or orchid. Click Here.

For my next batch of tests, I'm going to very lightly water some of my catasetum type orchids (potted in scoria) during their dormancy - in tropical conditions. And - once they begin to come out of dormancy, I'll do the same light watering test on the emerging roots (again).

Normally, there's a recommendation to not water catasetum type plants during dormancy - which makes sense, because the plant doesn't have any leaves for transpiration anyway.

Similarly, for plant beginning to come out of dormancy, some say that the newly emerging roots are not in a state that absorbs water. That's fair enough too - regardless of whether that's true or not.

Also - the bulb is supposed to be able to support the new growth for a while. Also fair enough.

But - what I've been clearly noticing is that - in my tropical growing conditions, providing suitable growing conditions (good temperatures, and ensuring that the roots get the required oxygen) --- putting a little water on those newly emerging roots, and lightly wetting the media - results in no issue for the catasetum type orchid.

This is meaning that it's not 'unsafe' to water a catasetum type plant when it is coming out of dormancy - provided that temperature range is fine, and provided that the roots get adequate amounts of oxygen.

My recommendation is - follow the general recommendation of not watering during dormancy ------ except for situations where the bulbs appear to be shriveling significantly - in which case ----- add a relatively small amount of water, for which the roots can absorb and plump up the bulb again.

And when the new roots begin to emerge (coming out of dormancy), you can still proceed with waiting for the X inch length method. This is what is generally recommended from many growers. If you do happen to see issues with new growths looking like they're drying up or dying - then very very lightly spray water into the media ..... very small amounts only.

Now, in my view --- one piece of information that some growers are passing on ------ about any water (even relatively small amounts) touching newly emerging roots and killing/stalling them (assuming growing temperature is good and roots are not exposed to oxygen starved conditions) ----- is a myth. It's more like that they're causing some other issue ---- such as very very cold and wet roots, AND/OR creating conditions in the media where the roots are getting starved of oxygen, which then takes down the roots and the new growth, and maybe even the plant.

Also - it is true that existing roots, or at least lots of existing roots of catasetum type plants (during dormancy), or coming out of dormancy ------ remain alive.

Thank you so much! Sorry so late, with the Corona virus situation I only just now got a break.
I decided to water the one in the picture ( the first plant with all the roots ) because the leaves were looking dehydrated . It seems to be okay and it's good to know that some of this is a myth anyways.
I appreciate all the information you provided.

---------- Post added at 04:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:15 PM ----------

Originally Posted by DirtyCoconuts

Yes, but not the leca. I use lava rock, perlite and a bit of big chunky charcoal. The only thing that breaks down is the charcoal but it last years and years

You could certainly use leca but I use that for my SH plants

Thank you for that info!

---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:15 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Subrosa

I started growing in.layered substrate a few years ago and haven't looked back. I put a large rock on the bottom of the pot since I grow outdoors to help prevent the plants from blowing over. Then I fill 2/3 of the way with cow manure and top off with cedar mulch. By the time new roots are long enough to reach the manure the plant can use all that fertilizer. I stopped worrying about how long the roots are, and don't start watering until the previous years pseudobulb start to shrivel.

I mixed composted cow manure in per your suggestion before. Thank you! Also thanks for this info.