Death of unopened flowers in cattleyas

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by Merita

I used to buy Bayer products, with one of them I made a killing of Phals because he fell into the roots, I still have them stored in the garage. Here I put these to see if any is the one you say, I remember there were several. If it's none of these, could you send me a picture of yours and the Orthene that you use? Greetings and thanks for your help.

I'm not sure who the "he" is that fell into the roots. But I use the one on the left - 3-in-1 Insect Disease and Mite Control For Use on Trees, Shrubs, Roses and Flowers. It's a liquid concentrate. I use about 2.5 - 3 tablespoons per half gallon (5-6 tablespoons per gallon). I also add a few drops of dishwashing liquid to help emulsify the concentrate, and also to facilitate its spread on the plant. I have sprayed roots, flowers, leaves, and medium and have never had a problem. If the concentrate fell into a pot, of course it could be disastrous. But at this dilution I have found it to be quite benign.

The granules designed for roses I think also contain fertilizer, and the product is scattered over roots - that would be too strong for orchids. Save that for roses or other plants that grow in dirt.

The Orthene product that I use is Orthenex, which is an oily liquid conceentrate. (I think I also have another similar green plastic bottle just labeled "Orthene" in the garage) The stuff really stinks...and I think the Bayer's kills more kinds of pests. I only use the Orthenex as a "back up" or "second product" for an infestation that needs extra "persuasion" since it does smell so bad. This is the stuff :

[Merita]

Thanks Roberta, I'm going to start with the one you tell me; the other is a liquid concentrate too but it contains fertilizers, I have the granules that you say for roses and many more of this brand, before I bought it. Greetings.

[Roberta]

Imidacloprid is toxic for bees, that is why it was banned... but careful focused spraying on only the orchid plants should minimize the exposure of bees, who don't particularly visit the orchids. Keep it away from flowering plants that the bees favor (but that's not where the pests you are concerned about are) Its toxicity for humans is quite low - wash hands after use and stand upwind when you're spraying so you don't spray yourself, of course, but I don't think you need to do this in a hazmat suit.

[Merita]

I always wear gloves and mask, more because I'm not young and I have to take care of myself. I have thrown the imidacloprid even in the grass, when it came granulated, I know that it is a neonicotinoid of moderate toxicity and probable carcinogen but it seems to me that besides the bees, they fear the contamination of the underground waters, I have never seen a bee in my garden but thousands of wasps. The companies that maintain the yards use it to eradicate ants and at higher concentrations, usually all insecticides and more fungicides, which really work, have their pros and cons.

[Roberta]

Neonicontinids are no longer available for home use, at least in California - I am not sure of the limitations for commercial use. So their indiscriminate use is definitely bad for the environment. It's a balancing act between human immediate needs - and wants - and what is good for the world. Perhaps I have a smaller pest problem than you do, but I do try to use as little as possible in the way of pesticides. And my yard has bees buzzing around the (non-orchid) flowers, and lots of butterflies. I am mostly willing to co-exist with the bugs, as long as they stay away from my orchids.

---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 PM ----------

The thought occurs to me... if you and the landscape staff in your neighborhood are already using massive amounts of imidacloprid on lawns and landscape plants, you may have another problem with those thrips and other bugs destroying your flowers. Resistance... The thrips, etc. that are around your orchids are the ones that survived the pesticide treatment. So the Bayer's may do little or nothing to help you. You may have a MUCH bigger problem. You probably want to look at something that uses a completely different mechanism than the neonicotinids. Perhaps one of the "juvenile hormone" products that prevent the larvae from developing into adults. Enstar AQ Insect Growth Regulator comes to mind. REALLY expensive. Do your research on how to handle and its efficacy if you plan to go that route. I don't know how effective it is for thrips. In an enclosed area such as a greenhouse, there are also beneficial insects, nematodes, etc. In the open air, not very effective, especially in an area where there is heavy pesticide use.

[katrina]

I had used the Bayer imidacloprid products for years for scale and a couple of years ago I discovered that is wasn't working anymore. I had developed a resistance issue. The scale seemed to be laughing at my spraying. I went looking for something else and heard good stuff about AzaMax so I opted to try that and it has worked great.

For scale, I do 3 sprays at 7-10 day intervals and it knocks out the scale. This past winter was the first in a few years where I wasn't dealing w/scale all winter. As soon as the weather warmed and I was able to open windows, I did start finding some scale but the winter was worry free.

Reading the label...it's also good for thrips and many, many other pests, including spider mites.

This is not a systemic, it works on contact and via ingestion by the pests. It is a growth regulator and it's active ingredient is Azadirachtin...which comes from the Neem seed. I have only had issues w/scale so I can't speak from experience to it's control on other pests but if it works as well w/those as it does w/scale...it will be great.

As a side note...like Neem, it stinks like crazy but the smell dissipates mostly after it dries. Use gloves and protection when using...like you would w/any other insecticide. It may be neem based but it's still an insecticide so it can harm bees if you actually hit the bees so only use it early in the morning or late in the evening when they aren't as active. Personally, I only do sprays very early in the morning.

I get it on Amazon and most Hydroponics stores also carry it.

[Merita]

I have not sprayed this year, so far that the thrips and other insects are destroying the orchids, I had not had major problems, I have spent years without doing so and they had never attacked me like that. I hope to solve with one or another insecticide, what I have is to act fast. Thank you all for the help, I will keep you informed if this continues.

[Merita]

I return with the thrips issue, I have sprayed twice with Bayer 3 in 1 without any results, Imidacloprid is not working. all the pods that were outside are turning yellow and black and the plants are taking out new growths; The flowers they have opened are still in trouble. I want to ask if the Orthene that Lowe’s sells for fire ants could be used in solution to spray the orchids. This is the last plant that sheath opened, the center flower is damaged, the sepals did not cover it completely. RLC Nakornchaisri Delight # 2.

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by Merita

I return with the thrips issue, I have sprayed twice with Bayer 3 in 1 without any results, Imidacloprid is not working. all the pods that were outside are turning yellow and black and the plants are taking out new growths; The flowers they have opened are still in trouble. I want to ask if the Orthene that Lowe’s sells for fire ants could be used in solution to spray the orchids. This is the last plant that sheath opened, the center flower is damaged, the sepals did not cover it completely. RLC Nakornchaisri Delight # 2.

Because of the heavy use of imidacloprid pesticides in your landscaping, I am not surprised that it is ineffective. The pests in your neighborhood are completely resistant to it. You will have to use treatments that have a different mechanism for attacking thrips, etc. Probably more than one type, alternating over a period of weeks.

[Merita]

No, the imidacloprid has not been used for this place for years and I only have one house nearby. Last night I was reading on the internet an article about thrips and it says that it has already been shown that this insecticide is not very active for thrips, it also said that the use of Orthene, Malathion and others, in the end, increased mites in plants, but They did not give an insecticide that could be used. This is why I am asking about the Orthene for fire ants.