Fertilizer inquiry

[Ray]

First of all, the fertilizers are not "my" formulas. I buy, repackage, and resell the Greencare products - the ones developed specifically for the MSU study, not knock-offs. The liquids I do make myself - by making concentrated solutions of the Greencare powders.

Secondly, there are two formulas, arbitrarily named for "RO" and "Well Water", but in actuality, the idea is that the first is for any pure water supply (RO, rain, distilled, DI, melted snow, or if you happen to live there, Manhattan tap), that is, water containing no appreciable dissolved minerals, and the other is for water supplies that do, which is pretty much every other source. (Ocelaris, stick with the RO formula.)

Now, let me go on a bit about fertilizers in general: There are "good ones" and "bad ones". Good ones have a decent balance of all major, minor, and trace elements. Bad ones have too much nitrogen, or just the major elements, and not much else. If the good ones have an excess of P or K, it's mostly just wasted, pushing them a bit toward the "bad" category in my mind, but not making them bad for your plants.

There is no such thing as a "bloom booster". The best flowers come from the healthiest plants, and that means excellent overall culture including an appropriate diet. There is a bit of psychology in this, though.

When the "MSU Fertilizers" hit the scene, they were touted as being close to "magical" in their effect. I have seen the same reaction to other brands and formulations, as well. In reality, what typically happens is that an amateur grower, upon getting the "magic" product, uses it in a thoughtful, controlled manner, giving the plant a decent diet, often accompanied by better attention to the other cultural conditions, cleanliness, fresh medium, etc., when they had been entirely too lackadaisical (OK - lazy and inattentive) about them in the past. They fail to realize that it's not the fertilizer, per se, that improves the plants, it's the fact that they're now getting some regularly and seeing better overall care, to boot! (I'd put money down on them falling back to their old ways after a while....)

Lastly, I'll comment on the "product promotion" comment, just so folks understand where I'm coming from:

First Rays is a WAY overgrown hobby (if it keeps growing at the rate it has been, soon I'll have more in sales than I make at my "real" job). I buy stuff I want/need (that's a vary narrow distinction, especially when it comes to plants), doing so in wholesale quantities so I can get the reduced pricing. I keep/use what I want, and resell the rest. What that means is that if I sell it, I have- or do use it, hence my recommendations. Do I sell stuff I don't use? Yeah, but I once did use it, and I'm not stupid enough to stop selling a product that is in demand. You will not see me promote something I have not used myself.

[TheNewGuy]

I really appreciate the info!!!!! It makes me happy knowing that there is a method behind the madness!!! Thank you once more for your input and I will be sure to get on the ball with some decent fertilizer.

[EdinAZ]

Originally Posted by quiltergal

Phosphorus is what supposedly leads to more/better blooms. I concur with Ray that it's too high N that causes plants not to bloom. I've also used "bloom boosters" and noticed absolutely no difference in bloom time or size/number of blooms. I think it's a waste of money. Just my :twocents: .

I have used different "grow" and "bloom" foods in the past. The last couple of years I have just used Dyna-Grow BLOOM (3-12-6) for ALL fertilizing. I think my plants bloom a little better and growth has not suffered at all.

I grow a broad variety of genus/species plants, and this seems to be working well for all. I have an automatic system that waters 1 or 2 times a week, depending on "zone" and the plants I have in that zone, and mists twice a day (mid-day) for a couple of minutes every day. My HVAC system keeps summer temps between 85 (day) and 65 (night), and about 5 plus degrees cooler in the winter. Humidity ranges from 80-90% to 60%. I fertilize "by hand" (with an injector and nozzle) once a week, but will often skip a week for reasons like travel, etc. I have a "dry zone" where I can shut off the watering for dormant plants, and of course I don't fertilize anything in dormancy.

I've been told by a couple of growers and by some VERY successful hobbyists that it doesn't matter so much what fertilizer you use, as long you DO fertilize regularly. Also, I'm sort of a LAZY hobbyist, and always try to keep things as simple as possible.

Here are some pictures taken over the last year, since I've been using the "one-fertilizer" routine (for over a year when these were taken). The Oncidium in the picture has turned into a monster, just finished blooming (the picture is from a year ago) with 17 spikes, some up to 5 feet long.

Ed

[gmdiaz]

I am super happy with using Ray's MSU and RO water. . .you'll be happy with this product!!!! But get it from Ray.

P.S. Might as well also order Ray's KLN!

Awesome combo.

[Ocelaris]

I don't think Ray was implying that high nitrogen fertilizer makes the plants NOT bloom, this is a misleading statement. He was just saying that UREA based nitrogen fertilizers are unusable by orchids because it must be broken down into ammoniacal nitrogen before it is usable by plants, and since orchids have usually very limited soil (soil = nitrifying bacteria which breaks down urea into ammonia), they don't do well with urea... and we can presume that typical "high nitrogen" fertilizers use cheap UREA which gives "high nitrogen" a bad name. Indeed there is no such thing as "preventing blooming" as much as an unhealthy plant will not bloom. You can't encourage or discourage blooming or vegetative growth, as much as you can discourage blooming by not providing enough vegetative mass... healthier plant = blooms.

What the MSU fertilizer plant is saying, is that soluble Nitrogen is the limiting factor, so high nitrogen that IS available directly to plants is desirable, and that only once the nitrogen is sufficient, then potassium, and lastly phosphates will be used.

I would agree that ANY fertilizer is sufficient as long as it's basically complete, and used in a reasonable manner. i.e. not too strong and used regularly. Plants will only take what they need, if you provide it all, they'll do with it what they want. It's not to say all fertilizers are created equal, just that what you feed them isn't probably as important as that you DO feed them regularly...

EdinAZ, do you have any more pictures of your grow room? It looks like a nice setup with grill for the floor, to allow water to drain?

[Ray]

Actually, Ocelaris, that was exactly the point. It has been shown time and again that a steady diet of high-nitrogen fertilizers will reduce-, if not stop flowering altogether. I don't know if the source makes any difference, but as urea has to be broken down through nitrification to be used by the plants, I suppose a high-urea formula is actually a low-nitrogen formula, as far as orchid growing is concerned.

[Ocelaris]

whoops! was tired, should've read twice...