Phal help: keeping remaining aerial root hydrated + stem rot - Orchid Board

yvresse · #1 03-11-2019, 05:30 AM

Hello all!

One remaining (small) aerial root
May have stem rot(?)
Healthy looking keiki on a spike but no roots so I can't propagage it yet
Cold temps at home...maybe between 10~15C

Being the newbie that I am, I thought my phal's roots became dehydrated because I hadn't known to repot it. After trimming off the dead roots (and one drying flower spike) I repotted with spagnum moss and kept up the moisture level by misting and surrounding pot with bowls of water. The leaves were perking up but after a week, I noticed black nubs. It's possible that I had missed these on initial inspection but it's also possible that they developed after the more intense watering.

Now I'm in a bit of a bind. I understand the need to keep my phal humid but at the same time I need to reduce moisture if that is, indeed, stem rot.

The black nub is very near the aerial root so I'm quite concerned.

My plan is to (see sketch IMG_20190311_011122.jpg - Google Drive)

Try hydrogen peroxide 3% on black stem
Use a pot with more holes so medium can dry
In addition to bowls of water around the pot, place water benath the pot (pot's base will have holes)

Any other ideas? Is it better to use wood chip with a layer of spagnum moss on top?

Thank you!

P.S. Sorry if this is a duplicate...I did skim through Stop the phal abuse up to a point but couldn't find something specific to this

Picture of aerial root w/ black nub:
IMG_20190310_220450.jpg - Google Drive

Close up of black nub: IMG_20190310_220256.jpg - Google Drive

Ray · #2 03-11-2019, 08:12 AM

What you have is a plant that has lost all of its roots due to suffocation in old potting medium, followed by death and rot.

Let that air dry for a couple of days, the you're probably best to try the old "sphag and bag" method to try to get new roots.

Soak a small amount (~200 ml volume, wet) of sphagnum and stick it in one corner of a large, resealable plastic bag.
Place the bare root plant in the bag - with NO contact with the moss whatsoever.
Seal it up and place it in a very warm, shady location.

The moss will maintain the humidity in the bag, preventing desiccation while the plant attempts to grow new roots. Once it has new roots emerging from the base of the plant, pot it up and begin treating it normally.

You might look into some KelpMax from C & C Orchids, too, but I don't know if they're shipping yet.

aliceinwl · #3 03-12-2019, 01:17 AM

I second Ray’s advice. I want to add that I don’t think the black nub is of particular concern. It looks to be an emerging new root that died or stalled due to poor conditions. I don’t think there is any need to attempt treatments of this spot and application of hydrogen peroxide would risk damage to it’s one good root.

yvresse · #4 03-12-2019, 03:35 AM

Thank you so much, Ray and aliceinwl!

Spag and bag I shall and will keep my fingers crossed.

I don't have Kelp but I do have Pro-Mix Stim Root powder. Will that do?

I know that orchids usually prefer warmer temperatures during the day. Is it very bad for it to be reversed? I keep the heat low in much of the flat but I do turn up the heater in the bedroom in the evenings. Would it be a good idea to move the orchids there so at least they some warmer temps?

emmajs243 · #5 03-13-2019, 11:31 PM

Hey I am not too sure about Pro-Mix Stim root...BUT, I do know that I was listening to an AOS webinar last night and they brought up the Rootone that you can buy at any Lowes/Home Depot type store as being helpful for a struggling plant...if you don't have anything else. Just something to consider! I think the most common one is TakeRoot by Garden safe....maybe do a little further research and compare its ingredients with those you would buy through an orchid supply seller? Same goes with what you have.

The kelp that Ray is talking about is really nice because I feel like it's a gentler "root/growth stimulant" that actually really works! it is actually from a natural source while most actual rooting hormones contain some percentage of a synthetic hormone called IBA.

Try doing a search to find some opinions on synthetic rooting products maybe if your considering it..I can say that if I were to ever try them, I would just take extra care to definitely use just as prescribed. More is not always better!

I just saw you hadn't gotten any further responses and had just heard that recommendation last night in our webinar so figured I would simply pass along the information!

On another note...it looks like your Phal has a spike still??? I would consider cutting her spike back. Yes, some phals will continue to bloom from the same spike but this takes energy that would be taken away from her growing new roots.

I wouldn't completely Worry though and just follow Rays advice for sure!!! In the way of "stem rot" I have found multiple rescue phals with stem rot after purchasing and I can say all were MUCH worse then the spots your has! My two most recent case haven't had any signs of It for months and are slowly improving!

From my experience, Stem rot normally is black yes, but also soft and mushy when you push on it...at least in the center of the spot. Like Alice said, that spot looks almost like a marking around a root.

Recently, the only thing Ive applied for bad stem rot is cinnamon! I would just really try to keep their stems as dry as possible. When watering I would dab off the excess water then apply cinnamon with a Q tip to the rest of the infected/questionable area. Cinnamon is great at drying things out. So I used it as a tool to help the stem off very quickly. I figured it was something that wouldn't hurt to try and was surprised with how much it seemed to help

Just make sure to not get it on the roots, it's really hard to get off and it will dry the roots too and suck the water from them!

Ray · #6 03-14-2019, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvresse

I don't have Kelp but I do have Pro-Mix Stim Root powder. Will that do?

I don't know that product either, but many powdered products are extremely concentrated and of limited solubility, as they're intended for rooting woody species, so may damage the plant.

Quote:

I know that orchids usually prefer warmer temperatures during the day. Is it very bad for it to be reversed? I keep the heat low in much of the flat but I do turn up the heater in the bedroom in the evenings. Would it be a good idea to move the orchids there so at least they some warmer temps?

Day/night temperature fluctuation is FAR less important than giving the plant the conditions it needs. Warmer all around will be best.

yvresse · #7 03-17-2019, 01:11 AM

Thank you, emmajs243 and again, Ray!

I've moved him to the bedroom, sphag'd and bagged where it's definitely warmer and I've trimmed the spike a bit. I figured when the Keiki (if it makes it) is ready, I'd have to trim the spike anyway!

Gentler's definitely better so I'll be ordering some kelp and keeping my fingers crossed.

When it gets here, should I use kelp together with a bit of orchid food or would using both be too much?

Right now I've held off on the orchid food since I just want to stabilize the remaining root but was wondering if I should resume just so there is enough nutrients for it to sprout roots?

aliceinwl · #8 03-17-2019, 11:03 AM

Being epiphytes, Phals don’t need a lot of nutrients. I’d hold off on the fertilizer until after it has some roots to absorb it. My Phals that needed to regrow roots have done fine without fertilizer during their “convalescence”.

emmajs243 · #9 03-17-2019, 05:39 PM

I personally have fed both for my struggling Phals just like At VERY low rates. Like 15 PPM of Nitrogen on a more consistent like every other day basis.

But, she definitely would probably be fine with just the kelp too like Alice has done! Since she only has that one aerial root it may not be a bad idea to hold off until she has more roots before adding in a very light fertilizer. It is just so much easier to overdue it and if your not confident in fertilizing ratios and calculating them quite yet then I would wait since you do only have one root and definitely don't want to risk losing it!

On another note, I HIGHLY suggest checking out Rays website for fertilizer help and advise or really ANY orchid help. It has become my favorite go to site for VERY detailed, thorough, Orchid help! Fair warning though...if your on a phone or tablet, scroll down all the way to the very bottom of the page! For the first like 5+ months of looking on Rays website I missed like 98% of the educational links just because I hadn't scrolled all the way to the bottom and one day I went to firstrays on my computer and found all these super helpful beginner type topic links and then went searching on my phone and realized they were just at the very bottom of the page! But it has just been a huge help for me and more detailed then any other site I've found so definitely is worth looking into if you haven't already!!

I don't know if you have purchased a kelp solution yet but I will just say, Kelpmax is awesome. If you look on Amazon, you really only find two kelp extracts for orchids, Kelpmax and Orchid Love. Or at least that's all I found. I bought the Orchid Love to start because it appeared to be cheaper but for various reasons finally swapped to Kelpmax and have really enjoyed it. I think the orchid Love is fine but I never really noticed any difference like you would expect when giving a growth type supplement. I also didn't like the lack of instructions on storage and it's longevity.

Once swapping to Kelpmax that is when I realized that kelpmax is actually substantially cheaper. Orchidlove you use 3TBP/Gal. Kelpmax only 1TBP/gal. Plus, Orchid Love needs to be administered on a weekly basis while Kelpmax is monthly (minus certain circumstances). So orchid Love may have been like almost half the price but kelp max you use 3 times less product 4 times less often. as someone who yes, wants to provide the best care to my orchids but still wants to save money, I REALLY wish I had noticed that before I ordered a kelp extract for the first time! I know there are others also available through orchid stores that in sure are great too just keep in mind the usage schedule when calculating price!

I will also say that with orchid Love I got a few new roots here and there but really that was it. Since one application of Kelpmax and Incocur Garden solution I have had a new leaf sprouting on one Phal, Either new root tips or my existing root tips are growing far faster then before AND I had quite a few new growths that just seemed to never change in size over the past 4-6 weeks that have already all easily doubled in size...at least...over the past like two weeks! I am definitely happy with my two new products! Yes, it's spring and warming up so they should start growing faster but if it's any consolation, I live in Idaho so we had terrible cloud coverage and temps below freezing up until two days ago when the sun finally broke out and the temps rose some so I don't know that I would say it was the seasonal change versus products in this case!

If you do end up choosing Kelpmax Ray's site once again has some detailed usage instructions on it for plants in certain conditions!

Treat Your Plants Right! >> First Rays LLC

yvresse · #10 03-19-2019, 05:20 AM

Wow, once again, thank you all for the tips and advice!

I feel much more confident about being able to give my orchid a better environment.

I will hold off on the fertilizer.

Re KelpMax, I am very keen on trying it since I'm trying my best to give it the best changes. I feel terrible for suffocating it and he's trying so hard to recover!!! Ray was right, C&C won't ship until April so I'll just keep my orchid stable, see how it goes and if needed, try to find a kelp brand available locally. Thank you for your help and encouragement, everyone!