HB 101 plant growth enhancer: Nonsense or not???

[camille1585]

A few months ago I got free samples of this all natural product called HB 101. It's an extract from pine-cedar-cypress trees. Simply add one drop per liter of water (along with the usual fertilizer) and it will supposedly increase plant and root growth, make plants healthier and more robust and so on. Apparently it's all the rage in Japan...

Here's the mineral analysis:
--Sodium- 155.3mg/gallon
--Calcium- 125mg/gallon
--Iron- 6.8mg/gallon
--Magnesium- 12.5mg/gallon
--Silicon- 28mg/gallon
--Cadmium- 0
--Arsenic- 0

Is there any point in this stuff???? Wouldn't fertilizers supply these nutrients anyways? I'm using the samples since I have them, but I'm not convinced they have any effect. My plants are growing better after 2 months, but I think it's more due to the fact that I got grow lights and better fertilizer around that time as well...
I don't really believe in this stuff, but what do you guys think?

[Royal]

Yeah, I'm kind of skeptical. Minerals will be provided by most fertilizers or a fertilizer made specifically for orchids. There are some vitamin/hormone products that make a similar claim. But just minerals -- I don't know.

Look for ingredients like BAP or NAA. These are plant growth regulators that do stimulate different types of tissue development.

[Ray]

FWIW, I suppose because I spend a lot of time sharing my experiences online, they sent me a PILE of it to play with. I started by using it on some tropical foliage plants, and practically killed them.

[Royal]

FWIW?

[quiltergal]

For What It's Worth.

[Orchid Whisperer]

Originally Posted by Royal

FWIW?

You being from Texas, perhaps it is Fort Worth is Wonderful??

---------- Post added at 04:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------

Originally Posted by GaryPNW

Empiracle testing reserarch is a neat thing. You may not know the theory why if works. But IF shown it does there then is a reason to be discovered.

I'm a PhD level Biochemist w Botany background. I'm a serious tropical plant grower, orchids for ~50 yr. I taught the Biochem sections of a Botany course at the UW-Madison. More importantly I mostly have done research on microbes and fungi and biodegradation/environmental applications.

Along the way I worked for a biocontrol company researching and manufacturing products which were microbes isolated from plants. They came from rare seedling survivors of plants attacked by microbial pathogen, such as blights, mildews and rots. Thousands of seedlings and only one pot or two would survive. Little custers of pots together or widely and randomly distributed.

Turns out that certain naturally-ocurring microbes had colonized the healthy plant surfaces and were competing with pathogens so they couldn't attack. Thus, spraying seedlings or young plant surfaces with the 'good' non-pathogenic microbes resulted in amazing protection levels. It's no surprize to most orchid growers that plant leaves and roots are not seperate from microbes in nature.

And I also have friends that have sold essential plant extract oils for years such as Clove, Cinnamon and lemon oil. And cinnamon power is a known organic natural antiseptic put on tropical plant division wounds to heal them ... perceive s theme developing here?

Let's forget the NPK fertilizer discussion or natural minerals in the water HB-101 product. They are not likely relevant to the method of action. One to four drops per gallon OR even quart would dilute them so much that they would not be a factor. I do agree with the feeling that Gibberelic Acid GA3 or other plant hormones hidden in mix could be a factor in success. Such factors can be active at huge dilutions. However, they don't mention them and results could be mixed with any hormone cocktail used on a range of plants.

What they do disclose is that extracts of Cypress, other Softwood trees are the materials used. Simple extracts are most typically terpene oil extracts, especially if not colored like there product is. And the product indeed smells like essential oils. When you put the drop(s) in water it gives a light haziness which I looks like what a surfactant soap would do to solublize such hydrophobic extractives.

What they claim is that the miracle solution protects the plants and favors or helps certain benefials microbes. Nice theory but no careful scientific proof. But my suggestion is that IF people are indeed seeing some benefits in use then it may indeed work, correctly done empiracle experiments don't lie! IF it is observed to help, below is rationale for potential mechanisms).

Plant extractives like this are typically made by a plant to prevent or reduce microbial attack. If you dilute the toxin/poison enough then it is like an antiseptic for the surface, much like mouthwash kills bacteria in your mouth, but hopefully not you. Now this is at the toxin levels used. Tree antiseptics at low surface concentrations could select for resistant microbes normally colonizing plants that actually do help. So it could help either as an antiseptic against all or bad microbed and/or a selector of helpful microbes (as they suggest it does).

However HB-101 can't help by this method if the major challenge of the plant is not microbial. For the sake of this discussion, let's say they are right and it is due to microbial selection effects.

Most orchids do well on bark or other microbially resistant materials until they break down enough to support the wrong micobes. Fir and other softwood barks would have their own potentially protective extractives when freshet. So I can see why HB-101 fits this similat senario.

Most people (me included) try to add more of anything dilute, if they don't believe the lable. A higher toxin level and carrier surfactant would likely kill many more microbes (even good or required ones) and could well burn sensitive plant tissues, such as roots. Which people do say happens if adding a little too much. To better understand this, gosh could you imagine 10x Listerine mouthwash in your mouth, which is made from pine tar extractives? Or 10x Spic and Span floor wash. The fumes would be horrible and the pine tar extractive based products could burn you. God forbid getting it in your eyes or a plant crown with expanding young tissue It might also kill you if you swallowed enough, or kill roots and leaves if you left it on their surfaces That is unless you purged it or washed it off.

Thus my working theory, when it helps, is not junk science bit rather microbial surface effects. Hormonal is one theory, but I suggest that the more likely mechanism would be exactly as they suggest. It only looks like a miracle because microbial attack or help can tax the energy of a plant or be life and death

Thoughts?

I was gifted a little at a garden show. I'm currently seeding bedding plants and transitioning tropicals and semitropicals. I'm going to see if it combats some seedling damping off (surface pathogen attack). I'm also growing some Brugmania plants from cuttings for outdoor use this year.

On plant surface oils for other toxic benefits with insects:

Since organic spidermite treatments for home use are dilute clove, garlic, cinnamon, and other plant oil extractives with surfactant to spread and stick them better, I will also try HB-101 at the recommended level against mites and insects. Cypress sure smells better than garlic oil!

Ever wonder why tomatoes and many other plants have oils on the surface? Our Nicotiana alata (Tobacco) plants for my fragrant summer moongarden have a sticky oil suface that kills knats and white flies on contact. These plants are loaded with Nicotine and similar have been used to make Nicotine for greenhouse pesticide use! I'm not sure yet where the nicotine is distributed im the plants. It doesn't dissolve well in water and might be with the oil and turpene zones. No worries farmers bred down the Nicotine level and up the flavor level in smoking tobacco so that people are entertained and generically not killed by at least this agent. And althought temping, I am not suggesting that tobacco companies are treating us just a little better than insects. Although ... if the data fits, it's one theory.

Sorry Gary, I'm pretty much ruling it out. I'm concerned with a product whose #1 inorganic element is sodium.

[Dollythehun]

Originally Posted by Royal

FWIW?

For what it's worth.

[minicatt]

i'm skeptical. Any product with huge claims of success are in my book suspect!
Peter

[orchids3]

Over the years scads of "Wonder Products" have come and gone. If you think that any one "Might" give good results then set it up as a "Controlled Experiment" and prove it one way or the other. Try the new product on one or two identical plants out of 10 and see if there is a differance between what you are using and the "wonder product". I like High N, Low P and High K with lots of Ca and Mg plus all the micro nutrients. The N is best in the form of Nitrates with a little ammonia. Have not had much luck with Urea products. The level of use especially N should depend on your light and temperature conditions. The rest of the stuff on the market - well do your experiment before you spend much money on it. A lot of fertilizer companies are more interested in your money than they are growing your plants well.

[RScott]

I bought the two little vials and did a control on a small scale, using Clivia and Adenium seedings in a 50/50 mix of perlite and vermiculite. A control of water only, one of HB-101 only, one of soluable 10-10-10 plus micro's and one of fert. and HB-101. The most obvious improvement over water was plain HB-101. Some nutrients are better than none. What did surprise me was the HB-101 with fertilizer. I would estimate 10-20% more growth, less nodule spacing on the dicot and overall more vigor. When I repot I plan to hose off the roots and compare weights and do the math before using it on thousands of acres of wheat. Who can afford a hundred dollar loaf of bread. The only ingredient that intrigues me is the yew, origin of the breast cancer drug Taxol. Several other plants are high in the brassiophones(sp). The US experimented with positive results in the 70's at about a thousand dollars a gram. RScott