Seeds & Parentage?

[kg5]

Looking at cattleya's and purchasing 10 seedling from the one batch of seed with a complex parentage.

Not looking for all the colours of the rainbow just the colours that come through from the complex parentage.

Looking for different shades of say orange + flower shape and I would be very happy with that.

But if the parentage has red and yellow in it with orange being the colour the grower is after. Could it be possible to get two or three different colour come out in the crosses? Or is it likely to get bi-colours?

Very interesting! All comment greatfully received!

[katrina]

IME, I would say either is possible. With red and yellow in the background you could get some orange or yellow or even some coloration of the red. Some will show crisp and clear colors and some or all might end up very muddy looking. Some might be gorgeous some maybe not so much. I'm not sure about the bi-color aspect...I think that would depend on how complex the hybrid is and what species are in the background but if a very complex cross then bi-color certainly wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities.

Don't be surprised if you also get some color(s) that's you don't expect. Depending on what's in the background...a very unexpected color could surface in the offspring.

And, obviously, don't be surprised if you get a different color/shape from each one. Buying a batch of seedlings is a fun way to do it and if I had more space I would definitely do some. Alas...spacial constraints won't allow me to do much of that.

[PaphMadMan]

There are certainly Catt hybrids that can show almost the full range of Catt colors and patterns from a single seed pod, but most breeding has a specific type in mind as a goal. Hard to generalize because it depends on the specific parents and the diversity 2-3 generations back as well as genetic dominance of certain colors or patterns, which can vary in different breeding lines. Did you have a specific cross or crosses in mind?

[pipsxlch]

The grower should have an idea of what to expect I'd think; if orange is what they expect then there should be at least a fair percentage of oranges and art shades. I don't think red x. yellow automatically gets you orange; it depends on the genes and colors behind the parents, and what species provided those genes even. And though I'm no expert on breeding, I think bicolors are somewhat unlikely unless you have bicolors/flares/peloric in the ancestry. (am I defining bicolor the same as you? Petals a different color or splashed/flared with a different color than the sepals?)
I was just looking at Odom's Orchids (gotten some great plants from them) crosses page; it tells the parents (sometimes with photos) and expectations for the cross, along with seedling bloom photo(s). I think Sunset Valley does the same only more so. Maybe it would help you to look at a few such pages to try and get an idea of what crosses produce what results?
Blc. Odom's Sunset. - Odom's Orchids, Inc. an example from Odom's

[kg5]

Thank you all very much for your replies.

As I was going around the large local orchid nursery that has been breeding orchids since 1978. I saw many complex parentage crosses.

So impressed with the way the orchid seedling have grown I have decided to get another 10 or 15 as at the great prices they offer. We have so much space and winter is not an issue here.

I really like the colour orange and also the two colours that make orange being red and yellow.

Some of the cattleya crosses I have noticed have a large parent back ground and it has really stayed with me. I just can not resist getting a bunch of seedlings from the same batch.

Of course I will get the advice from the breeder but wanted to get some feedback about this issue before going to the nursery tomorrow. As I am still very new to orchids but not horticulture.

I will give an update on what happens tomorrow.

[orchidsarefun]

Orchidwiz is a great research tool. They may still have a 30 day free trial. You can check out crosses and there is quite an extensive photo database. You can even do hypothetical crosses and see/review the closest registered genetic match.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

[kg5]

Well that idea blow up in my face so to speak.

But he was impressed with the idea and then went about telling why it will not work in his nursery.

The nursery has a mix of clones and seed plants.

Even though he does not have an image on his plants for sale his stock is bred so the highest constant quality of shape and colour is achieved. There is a large part to the nursery here that nobody from the public can see because it is a sterile as we can make all the different maturing area that orchids need.

He showed me a group of relatives. Interesting as some were flowering.

He showed one batch and said we crossed 2 beautiful whites with white going back some generations but this latest cross we believed would be white of course but 20% of the plants turned out pink!

They clone the best they breed.

Now I have a head full of info. Just glad I have some books to help me understand. I have a lot to learn about cattleya's!

[Fairorchids]

Originally Posted by kg5

Well that idea blow up in my face so to speak.

But he was impressed with the idea and then went about telling why it will not work in his nursery.

The nursery has a mix of clones and seed plants.

Even though he does not have an image on his plants for sale his stock is bred so the highest constant quality of shape and colour is achieved. There is a large part to the nursery here that nobody from the public can see because it is a sterile as we can make all the different maturing area that orchids need.

He showed me a group of relatives. Interesting as some were flowering.

He showed one batch and said we crossed 2 beautiful whites with white going back some generations but this latest cross we believed would be white of course but 20% of the plants turned out pink!

They clone the best they breed.

Now I have a head full of info. Just glad I have some books to help me understand. I have a lot to learn about cattleya's!

This is not a surprise. White is recessive versus pink, so it is common for a 'white cross' to have a percentage (sometimes 100%) pink flowers.

There are similar dominances between other colors, and a given color could be on different genes in different species (meaning that yellow x yellow does not necessarily produce yellow).

You need input from someone who really understands the genetics (most breeders do not, though their experience from years of breeding usually points them in the right direction).