Against the "Status Quo" - Page 4 - Orchid Board

NYCorchidman · #31 07-03-2014, 01:14 PM

Well, "misting" can be very unclear unless it is detailed out how much and how often it is applied.

If misting is significant enough, it's basically the same thing as watering.

The way many people might understand misting, say some little sprinkling of water to just wet the roots once or twice a day, yeah, that plant will surely not be anywhere near the level of (if still alive and healthy) another plant that is well water as plant is basically almost all water.

RJSquirrel · #32 07-04-2014, 05:41 AM

I mist the plants foliage heavy sometimes 2 times a day in the heat and thats added to a pot watering 3-4 times a week.

The difference being that mistng leaves the whole greenhouse wet, foliage included where as watering the plants is just watering the roots in the pots the plants were grown in.

It is 2 different distinct and functional applications of water is mistng and watering.

isurus79 · #33 07-04-2014, 11:09 AM

I think we should also distinguish the difference between misting or fogging in a controlled environment (like a greenhouse or terrarium)which is very useful and spritzing an orchid by hand in the home to raise humidity; which most growers would generally agree is completely useless.

Ray · #34 07-05-2014, 10:08 AM

Think about an epiphyte in nature: The only supply of nutrition is what trickles down out of the forest canopy when it rains.

In those environments, rain tends to be very heavy, so that nutrient concentration, as low as it may be to start, becomes essentially zero in a matter of seconds. The ability of velamen to become instantly saturated, and then to trap and hold the nutrient ions therefore, is an evolutionary adaptation for survival.

So it seems to me that, by watering with plain water first, any ions that may be in the water supply will occupy the "capture sites", limiting the capture of the more important ions in the fertilizer solution.

Fairorchids · #35 07-06-2014, 08:32 PM

In greenhouse environment, we often have to water (drench) plants twice to get them thoroughly wet. Thus, if we fertilized first, we would instantly be washing the fertilizer away.

NYCorchidman · #36 07-07-2014, 01:27 AM

You don't have to worry about fertilizer being washed away because when you fertilize, the roots take up what they need immediately as Ray says.

This also gets rid of salt buildup issues.

Fairorchids · #37 07-14-2014, 08:11 PM

I actually beg to differ. Salts will migrate across a membrane (= cell wall) from high to low concentration, but it is not an instant migration.

Thus:
Application of fertilizer will still be effective after a heavy watering.
Heavy watering is needed after 3-4 days of no watering.
Done in reverse, you waste a lot of fertilizer, either by watering 2-3 times with fertilizer mix, or by washing away the fertilizer the plants have not taken up yet. We then wash out excess in the next watering (drenching).

I sort of have the proof in my Paphs. Whenever I have had a Paph for 6 months or more, I can see a marked difference in the leaf shape & width, between leaves it had coming in (pointed & narrow), and those it grows under our conditions (blunt & wide).

Likewise, I purchased some 6-8 Phrags from Oct to Feb. All were single growth plants, or plants that had grown only single growths for several years running. All are busting 2-4 vigorous new growths under our conditions.

stonedragonfarms · #38 07-14-2014, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

I actually beg to differ. Salts will migrate across a membrane (= cell wall) from high to low concentration, but it is not an instant migration.

Thus:
Application of fertilizer will still be effective after a heavy watering.
Heavy watering is needed after 3-4 days of no watering.
Done in reverse, you waste a lot of fertilizer, either by watering 2-3 times with fertilizer mix, or by washing away the fertilizer the plants have not taken up yet. We then wash out excess in the next watering (drenching).

I sort of have the proof in my Paphs. Whenever I have had a Paph for 6 months or more, I can see a marked difference in the leaf shape & width, between leaves it had coming in (pointed & narrow), and those it grows under our conditions (blunt & wide).

Likewise, I purchased some 6-8 Phrags from Oct to Feb. All were single growth plants, or plants that had grown only single growths for several years running. All are busting 2-4 vigorous new growths under our conditions.

A few points:
a. I believe that you would need to set up a control to verify your results...I'm assuming that you mean that subsequent growths under your cultural regime result in more substantial growth. That being said, there are a number of factors that come in to play here besides fertilization regimen/technique; light, humidity, differentials between day and night temperatures, water quality, media & frequency of watering just to name a few.
b. Unless I'm mistaken, there is a difference in root structure and the ability to take up nutrients between those orchids that are epiphytes and those that are terrestrial/semi-terrestrial; I believe that the premise of this thread was to deal with those orchids that are epiphytes/lithophytes in "nature"; it has been shown that in these epiphytes, ion exchange occurs in the first few moments of the roots velamen being exposed to nutrient solution.
c. I'd be curious to see the growth rates/forms of these same plants if all of your cultural practices were observed, without the application of any fertilizer.
Just my $.02
Adam

DeaC · #39 07-14-2014, 08:48 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen...I've now seen the light and what you all say makes sense. I don't grow vandas or anything like them but if it's good enuf for Dr. Motes, it's good enuf for me. This is a great discussion and a real eye-opener!

Fairorchids · #40 07-15-2014, 07:05 AM

The concept makes sense for Vandas grown in empty baskets (with exposed roots). For plants grown with medium in baskets & pots (as I grow all my epiphytic orchids), it does not. I have to wet the medium first.