Feeding Complex Paph to Foster Budset

[JMNYC]

Originally Posted by quiltergal

The reason for the suggestion was to see if you notice any difference at all. If they all continue to be optimum bloomers, then that should suggest that ppm of N is the key. If there is a difference it would be interesting to note.

I would offer to do it but I only have one standard hybrid Phal. that blooms at the same time every year. All my others are free blooming species or novelties that bloom pretty much whenever they feel like it, so I never really know when they are thinking about setting buds.

Forgive me, I am unclear re the above. May I ask if you've read my current fertilizing strategy for all my Phals and, if you have, is it clear?

Next, why would I tamper with something I evolved over time which is luminous in its efficacy re my Phals?

Why would I comprise their palpable health and happiness as I have come to learn to augment those? For the sake of some experiment?

Please....I am confused.

[quiltergal]

Yes I did read your strategy, and yes it was clear.

Yes I can see that you are confused, so never mind. Done here.

[JMNYC]

Originally Posted by quiltergal

Yes I did read your strategy, and yes it was clear.

Yes I can see that you are confused, so never mind. Done here.

No justification/need for vituperation here, Terri! Truly!

I tried to make the core of my confusion at your suggestion clear, given, it took me aback: I would never even consider experimenting with any living being (in this event, my 32 Phals), for whom I’ve evolved a feeding strategy (among all the other cultural elements) which clearly fosters their health and happiness..... in service of some capricious curiosity. Forget, one which might compromise those.

That was what I gently chose to call my “confusion”: that you were suggesting I should consider doing that!

My initial take, as a friendly human who, by default, always gives the benefit of the doubt, was, well, perhaps Terri did not read the specifics of my evolved strategy and the joyous, gratifying results of that re all my Phals.

Hope this clears this up.

[james mickelso]

Orchids are very light feeders in the wild. There is not much P and K when it is raining all the time. But lots of N which is produced in the atmosphere by lightning. When the dry season comes, it rains less and allows the P and K ratio relative to N rise. P and K are not washed away as quickly as when it is raining most of the time. The dry season, for the most part, is when the plants finish growing flower spikes. That is when their pollinators are flying. So changing the ratio of N to P and K is one of the signals to switch on the bud primordial. In other words, flower. For those orchids I grow, this is when the sheaths should start to form. I have found in my cattleyas, this is when the pbulbs are about half grown. Feeding "bloom boosters", or low N to P and K fertilizers all the time I don't think will produce the same results. It is not the amounts but the ratio and the time it happens. Those are my observations. I feed my orchids at every watering and very lightly. I use RO water blended with my potable water. Works for me. Your mileage may vary. But that is how things work in nature. I have studied insect pollinators in their natural habitats and during the rainy season these are larvae but during the dry season these same larvae change to flyers or beetles. And that is when the P and K can build up in the detritus lodged in the roots. It is just the ratio.

[Ray]

Following up on James' last comments, I have been experimenting with fertilizers and additives pretty much my whole orchid-growing life (over 40 years at this point), and most recently ("recently" being 3.5 years) have use K-Lite fertilizer (12-1-1-10Ca-3Mg) exclusively, and at very low dosage rates - on the order of 30-35 ppm N, which is still many time the concentration these plants would see in nature.

I am getting more-, and better blooming than ever, and am seeing spikes on phals that are far less mature than I have experienced in the past.

[JMNYC]

Originally Posted by Ray

Following up on James' last comments, I have been experimenting with fertilizers and additives pretty much my whole orchid-growing life (over 40 years at this point), and most recently ("recently" being 3.5 years) have use K-Lite fertilizer (12-1-1-10Ca-3Mg) exclusively, and at very low dosage rates - on the order of 30-35 ppm N, which is still many time the concentration these plants would see in nature.

I am getting more-, and better blooming than ever, and am seeing spikes on phals that are far less mature than I have experienced in the past.

Thank you, Ray....and, for the punditry of yr impressive experience!

I will look into this as I have never tried it. Is the nitrogen non urea derived?

Do you use this on all yr orchids? All alliances...with the same happy result?

Might you share the specifics of your growing conditions, i.e., indoors, GH, outdoors?
-__________________________________________

Been delving; came upon this:

Big Leaf Orchid forum • View topic - K-Lite Fertilizer

From a dense with data post via the above.....this is only a tiny part of the post in qestion:

• Tissue data in wild plants indicates that calcium (Ca), and magnesium (Mg) concentrations tend to be greater than that of potassium (K), yet most fertilizers have it the other way around. The "MSU RO" formula was the first to address that for orchid growers.

---------- Post added at 05:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 PM ----------

Well! Delving for a change, came upon below. Talk about hard sells and, perhaps, if it sounds too good to be true, it is. Plus, for all they say, they give no specifics.

Snake oil?

Grow Spectacular Orchids... The right way!

[JMNYC]

Guys! Please see this and what I just came upon re feeding Paphs while salivating over almost everything (largely unaffordable) this formidable Paph vendor offers! OMG.

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...tml#post689326

[NYCorchidman]

Originally Posted by JMNYC

Addendum:

Found this:

Making Orchids Bloom « RF Orchids

Pls scroll down to 'Fertilizer'

That article has lots of outdated and wrong information.
One for example, "high N fertilizer is needed for plants in bark mix because bacteria breaking down the bark use up much of it" rationale is proven to be untrue.

I'm sure many many growers out there had already found out through first hand experience loooong time ago.

---------- Post added at 11:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 PM ----------

Originally Posted by JMNYC

Forgive me, I am unclear re the above. May I ask if you've read my current fertilizing strategy for all my Phals and, if you have, is it clear?

Next, why would I tamper with something I evolved over time which is luminous in its efficacy re my Phals?

Why would I comprise their palpable health and happiness as I have come to learn to augment those? For the sake of some experiment?

Please....I am confused.

Changing fertilizers or even not using them for a long time as I have shared, will in no way hurt your plants' health unless you are mixing them too strong to a point where you would burn the roots out.

[JMNYC]

Changing fertilizers or even not using them for a long time as I have shared, will in no way hurt your plants' health unless you are mixing them too strong to a point where you would burn the roots out.

Yes, I know what's been posted here re not using fertilizers. But for me, it's always getting to the bottom of everything that matters (in my work I get paid to): again, I would attribute the apparent lack of consequences of what I feel is neglect in this....more to the inherently atypical hardiness/resilience of orchids over millenia (tho some more than others to be sure.)

I am seriously, joyfully emersed in all things computer-related, and I can tell you, gamers, tho not only....overclock every component in their systems possible. I never do; I run at stock speeds and honor the engineering of each component, starting with the CPU.

[Ray]

JMNYC -

• I grow in a greenhouse.
• I have a very wide range of genera, including species and hybrids. Pretty much anything but dendrobiums.
• I grow in semi-hydroponics, in Orchiata bark, in my own blends, in sphagnum, in LECA in traditional culture, in EcoWeb cubes.
• in baskets, in pots, on cork mounts, on EcoWeb mounts.

When we came up with the concept of K-Lite formula and I had the stuff produced, I was quite concerned about potential deficiencies. Let's not forget that the original concept started with Rick Lockwood's work related to freshwater mollusks, and was augmented by my own knowledge of the role K & P play in ceramic and glass systems. Nothing "plant" or "orchid" going on there, but being able to piece together widely disparate concepts and apply them to a new area is the mark of creativity...

In the 3.5 years I've been testing, I see no issues whatsoever, but as predicted, I am seeing more vitality and fewer rots.

There has been a lot of discussion and study to try to show the formula to be close to what plants see in nature, but that varies all over the map (literally and figuratively). Chemical analyses of forest throughfall and trunk flow in some parts of the world match the ratios pretty well, and they don't in others.

Tissue analysis is basically worthless, as plants store stuff they don't need, skewing the assessment of "what is necessary".