Viruses and unconfirmed facts

[isurus79]

Any chance you could tell us who this speaker is? I am part of a group that is in charge of bringing speakers to the largest cities in Texas and would be very interested in learning who is saying what about virused orchids.

[nikkik]

Originally Posted by escualida

I've tested all of my plants and here is what I've found:

1) I have a good amount of cattleyas, some of which have come from Hawaii (like Kawamoto), and none of them have been virused

Thank you for your reply. I've gotten many plants and flasks from Hawaii (cloned) & to date haven't seen an issue. I know viruses can not present symptoms for sometime, but I would think having so many plants from Hawaii I'd see some with some issues by now, if 90% of those plants were infected.

---------- Post added at 08:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 PM ----------

Originally Posted by tucker85

There may be orchid viruses that don't cause problems or show symptoms, I really don't know. But I lost half my orchid collection a few years back because I didn't know about sterilizing cutting tools.The virus that spread through my collection caused deformed flowers with severe color break. It also caused the plants to grow poorly and look unhealthy. I've never tested for a virus, but now I sterilize my cutting tools every time I use them and I throw out any plant that shows severe color break or other clear signs of a virus.

I'm so sorry about your collection! Thank you for sharing your experience.

---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Bud

That speaker is a fraud and sending false information. You should of confronted that speaker and exposed in front of everyone in that meeting. In fact Hawaii is very strict on import/export of plants and it is also hard on Hawaii sending plants to the mainland unless they have a permit/certificate.

Bud, thanks so much for the response! I tend not to confront until I have written proof in front of me because in my former profession I would have gotten into trouble. I really consider and try to pull my thoughts together before confronting, but I give credit to those who nip false facts right away.

---------- Post added at 08:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 PM ----------

Originally Posted by isurus79

Any chance you could tell us who this speaker is? I am part of a group that is in charge of bringing speakers to the largest cities in Texas and would be very interested in learning who is saying what about virused orchids.

I will not call anyone out negatively over the Internet for reasons posted above. I'm not trying to create problems for anyone, I'm just using this forum as a source to seek information about facts I believe I was misinformed on.

[quiltergal]

It sounds to me like that speaker has a bad case of sour grapes. I would bet he's feeling pinched because plants from HI are reasonable in price and there is a wide variety. I know one grower on Oahu who closed his shade house because shipping to the mainland was a PITA. Everything that ships to the mainland must have nematode cert. His feeling was that this was pushed by growers in CA to reduce competition from HI.

[DavidCampen]

Originally Posted by nikkik

Last month, my orchid society had a guest speaker come in to talk about pests and diseases. He hit on the subject of orchid viruses and I have been thinking about some of the things he stated for the last month. Here are some of those things: he told us never to test for viruses, that throwing out virused plants is equivalent to killing a child with a cold (as a mother I found this statement extreme and unnecessary), a virused plant with appropriate culture will not show the effects of the virus, the only people who should be concerned about viruses are big commercial growers, and 90% of the plants that come out of Hawaii will test positive for viruses.

Most of these statements are the opposite of what I have always heard and read. I was wondering if anyone has heard these statements or knows of literature that would help me research some of the statements that I stated above(I know some are opinions). I would really like to see the facts about plants coming out of Hawaii because I know a lot of us purchase beautiful plants that come from there and I find this statement hard to believe.

I typically would not challenge an Orchid Society meeting speaker's comments even if I disagree but in my opinion this guy is a moron and I would have interrupted him while he was speaking to tell him so.

[Leafmite]

I wish vendors would test all their plants and just charge $5 extra for each one (or whatever it costs to test them). When I learned that orchids can hide virus for years and are sold untested, I nearly gave up collecting orchids. I didn't want to harm my other plants, many of which are known to quickly succumb to virus. I decided to keep the orchids after quite a bit of thought but buying new ones definitely became less fun. In the last year, I have bought mostly (and filled up the rest of my space with) non-orchids and the only orchid I am willing to add to my collection now is a schoenorchis. The risk is just no longer worth it to me.

---------- Post added at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 AM ----------

I have to agree that the speaker isn't someone I'd want to sell me an orchid. :0

[escualida]

Originally Posted by Leafmite

In the last year, I have bought mostly (and filled up the rest of my space with) non-orchids and the only orchid I am willing to add to my collection now is a schoenorchis. The risk is just no longer worth it to me.

The good news is that there are some good sellers out there that will replace or refund your plant if you get it tested and it comes out positive, they will even reimburse you for the cost of the test. One of these sellers is Hausermann's, they sometimes resell Phals from other growers and I've gotten a few that were virused. I got them tested through Critter Creek and had them send the report directly to Hausermann's, when they got the report they refunded the cost of the virused plants plus the cost of the test for those plants.

Also, I have a LOT of cattleyas and some phals from Carter and Holmes and NONE of them have ever had a virus, so if you want to be 99.9% sure you're buying a virus-free plant, get one from them.

[euplusia]

Speaking of virus infection in orchids in general quickly leads to a scientific matter.
Suffice to speak of Cymbidium Mosaic Virus (two types) and Odontoglossum Ringspot Virus/Tobacco Mosaic Virus Orchid Strain, in particular when it comes to Cattleyas.
These two cause the vast majority of problems, their prevention deserves priority. To discount their transmission is a crime.
By the way an infected plant must be treated as infected. This requires measures to avoid transmission. Since we never know for sure, it is best to treat all plant as potentially infected. An infected plant must not be immediately destroyed.
I have read that an infected plant should be the pod parent in breeding, not the pollen parent. Propagation with an infected plant must be carried out from ripe seed, not from a green pod.
I am aware that a handful more viruses are important for orchid growers and especially in Phalaenopsis, and some of these viruses are nearly impossible to detect and test up to now.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by DavidCampen

I typically would not challenge an Orchid Society meeting speaker's comments even if I disagree but in my opinion this guy is a moron and I would have interrupted him while he was speaking to tell him so.

David and I have been known to disagree on stuff, but in this case I'm 100% in agreement!

Personally, I am of the opinion that every living creature is carrying pretty much every pathogen to which it has ever been exposed.

Animals have immune systems that actively keep them at bay, but if that is compromised in some way, the pathogen population can expand and severely affect the creature.

Our plants don't have an active immune system, so rely primarily on simply remaining "sturdy" though our application of proper cultural aspects, as a way to remain healthy and avoid symptoms. In some cases, they can react to such stresses, but those reactive mechanisms are often as damaging as the issue they're trying to resolve.

I will also agree that folks that think their plants are virus free - even when tested with home kits - are likely being overly trusting of the results. All such testing has both false positives and false negatives.

[nikkik]

I was skeptical about creating a thread on this matter, as I knew many would post their opinions about the speaker. I only wanted to know if anyone knew of sources for some of this information.

The virus portion of the talk was such a small amount of what the speaker covered and he did go over how to prevent viruses in our collections. His overall point was that with proper culture and observation of our plants viruses are not the number one risk to our plants' well beings. My hope was that someone else could present more articles or proof regarding some of his points, especially the ones I was not in agreement with.

I love to hear others viewpoints and I try to refrain from name calling or making someone intentionally feel small, especially when I don't believe there is intentional malice behind their words. I wasn't trying to get anyone fired up; I was just seeking more information.

The speaker had a great deal of information on how to prevent pest without dangerous chemicals and he did tell the group how important a pest free environment was. There were many more good points to his talk then questionable ones. Since I was merely asking a quick question for personal growth, I didn't think it was necessary to state all of the good points too.

In the future, I will ask a speaker to cite the sources and I will try to get a hold of the speaker and ask for some of his resources (which is probably what I should have done in the first place). If I'm able to get an answer I'll be sure to update this post.

Again, thank you all for your responses!

[littlefrog]

I can pretty much guarantee that orchids (and all plants) carry viruses. You do too. Your genome (and mine) is littered with old (inactive, and mostly dead) viruses that have integrated into your DNA over evolutionary history. It is part of being a living organism. The vast majority of viruses (dormant, active, or otherwise) are symptom free. There are a few that cause obvious symptoms (although they can hide too), and we are the most worried about those. Ring-spot, tmv, etc.

Now, do 90% of orchids from Hawaii (or anywhere) carry the viruses we care about? Pretty sure they don't. Visual inspection is insufficient to tell, though. And as Ray says, there can be false positives (and negatives) on any test.

Personally I assume that everything is potentially virused, and I use care to avoid cross contamination at all times. And I also do not test, I can't afford to and I mostly grow plants that are reputed to be virus free. For example, the old story is that paphs and phrags are resistant to virus. They may be resistant, but I can assure you they aren't immune. I have thrown out several phrags with ring-spot virus. I have yet to see a paph with obvious virus, but I'm sure there are some out there somewhere.