Its my Turn for a problem wtih Ebay what would you do? - Page 2 - Orchid Board

Wild Orchid · #11 08-20-2013, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidCampen

Why would you buy from an ebay vendor in Bulgaria, were the plants so rare that you couldn't find a vendor that could ship to you from the U.S.?

I suppose currency conversion might be tempting in some cases (20 BGN Lev = US13.60) but then there's a risk of doing business with Eastern European countries.

King_of_orchid_growing:) · #12 08-20-2013, 12:30 AM

As with many things bureaucratic, change moves slower than a snail.

Good luck convincing them that these laws aren't preventing the things they were meant to prevent.

A great example is Phrag kovachii. Did any of those CITES certifications stop them from being poached? I think we all know the answer to this question.

What drives the poaching is not just the demand, but the inability to supply the demand legally and sustainably as well as the high profits to be made should the demand be met, even if it is illegal.

When there is large sums of money involved, no one cares about legal or illegal.

TOMMYMIAMI · #13 08-20-2013, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild Orchid

I suppose currency conversion might be tempting in some cases (20 BGN Lev = US13.60) but then there's a risk of doing business with Eastern European countries.

Not that I do want to somehow fight for Eastern European Countries (even I am originally from Czech Republic), but in this case I think it has NOTHING TO DO with where did you purchase from! No matter if Bulgaria, Romania, or Brazil! You did buy knowing there is not certificate that is necessary to receive plants to the USA! Seller sent you your plants you paid for! Yes, you are talking about someone from Bulgari, but let's be real, you think that seller from across the boarder would not do the exactly same thing and would actually give you your money back, just because your package was seized by your US customs? I truly believe it would not happen. Seller did exactly what he was suppose to do, he stated there is no certificate, and he did ship and provide tracking! the rest was really on you and your luck, which you did not have this time, simple as that!

King_of_orchid_growing:) · #14 08-20-2013, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild Orchid

I suppose currency conversion might be tempting in some cases (20 BGN Lev = US13.60) but then there's a risk of doing business with Eastern European countries.

I would have to agree about the currency exchange rates to some degree.

But I think I know what kinds of orchids they are if the Ebay seller was from Eastern Europe.

They are rare in the US trade - more like mostly impossible to find. In the European trade, they're around, but not in large quantities.

Here's a hint...

They are quite possibly in the subfamily Orchidoideae, not Epidendroideae.

Think native Mediterranean orchids...

---------- Post added at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 PM ----------

I forgot another thing that drives this whole poaching thing...

The other part of the equation is also that high prices drives more and more people to search for a supplier that can meet the demand at a far more affordable price.

Who the hell wants to pay $500 - $1,000 a pop for a plant that could easily croak on you because the information to care for these plants aren't even out there yet.

Yeah, there are the people who can drop that kind of cash in a beat, but then that leaves the rest of us in the dust, and we don't like that do we? As with anything hot, "we gotta find a way to get our hands on it."

DavidCampen · #15 08-20-2013, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

I would have to agree about the currency exchange rates to some degree.

But I think I know what kinds of orchids they are if the Ebay seller was from Eastern Europe.

They are rare in the US trade - more like mostly impossible to find. In the European trade, they're around, but not in large quantities.

Here's a hint...

They are quite possibly in the subfamily Orchidoideae, not Epidendroideae.

Think native Mediterranean orchids...

So does this mean that a CITES permit is not obtainable? If so then perhaps the OP should count himself lucky that he is not facing criminal charges.

King_of_orchid_growing:) · #16 08-20-2013, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidCampen

So does this mean that a CITES permit is not obtainable? If so then perhaps the OP should count himself lucky that he is not facing criminal charges.

It's obtainable - or at least, I think they'd be. I just don't know how easy that process would be. It is usually tedious and lengthy.

He's lucky. All I'm gonna say.

Kevin_PR · #17 08-20-2013, 02:54 AM

No a CITES cert is not anything out of the ordinary. It would involve a legitimate licensed business going down to their local customs dept. or presenting the items and where they originated from. In some instances, depending on the status of the species they must state whether the species is grown from seed or not and where the seed came from. When I imported from Thailand a couple years back it was just a matter of paying a fee to the seller and he got the CITES and Phyto-san. That order was much larger and I did have to acquire a permit in that instance. I do not need an import permit for the quantity that was ordering this time.

I ordered 4 plants the hard to find one in my eyes was Cycnoches peruviana, the rest I ordered because they were interesting and not in my collection nothing particularly rare.

RosieC · #18 08-20-2013, 07:01 AM

Just be glad custom's didn't turn up on your door and start talking about legal action against you.

I've heard of that happening to someone who used to be on this board. They had ordered from an ebay seller who claimed to be in the USA and wasn't. Rather than just confiscating the package customs decided to take further action. In that case because the customer could prove they didn't know the seller was outside the USA customs didn't take it further with them.

However it's my understanding that if you know the seller is outside the USA then it's just as much your responsibility to check all the legal paper work is in place as it is the sellers. Yes they are dodgy in my view for trying to sell to you, but I believe that legally the buyer is just as responsible in the eyes of the law.

I'm not sure what you mean about not needing the paperwork for a smaller quantity of plants. You always need this to buy orchids between countries. The only exception I know of is that the 'European Union' is counted as one country for this purpose (so I can buy from continental Europe in the UK because we are part of the European Union). If I was to buy from anywhere outside the European Union I would need all the paper work.

RJSquirrel · #19 08-20-2013, 08:10 AM

Im think Im hearing david here. what the hell can you find in bulgaria that no one else has available?

A Rare recently collected jungle species do doubt

RosieC · #20 08-20-2013, 08:27 AM

There are things which are easily available in Europe but not in the USA and vice versa. Not just recently collected plants, but things which are everywhere in one place and not another)

Some Neo's are harder to come by in Europe. It's possible when international sellers come over here for shows and get all the paper work to transport them, but the are not as easy to come by as in the USA.

there are genuine reasons sometimes for looking to import. Personally though I will stick to what I can get legally and I won't pay masses for any single orchid (so won't go through all the paper work for import). That means I get what's available in Europe and what internationally sellers bring in when they visit Europe.