Pollination myth or fact?

[The Orchid Boy]

I've heard of having greater success pollinated difficult crosses on the full moon. I did a quick Google search and found this: Life History of the Orchid (See paragraph 5)

So is this pollinating on or near the full moon true? The reason I ask is I have a difficult paph cross I'm going to try and make and I want success! And I'm just curious. The next full moon is tomorrow, April 25th.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

When I read the article, my interpretation of it was that, it specifically states that a Hawaiian orchid hybridizer has observed that certain difficult to breed Oncidium intergeneric crosses have had a higher pollination success rate when it was closer to the full moon and made an assumption that it's POSSIBLE that, in order to explain the observation, these Oncidiums MAY have adapted to the lifestyle of a certain nocturnal insect, but whether it is 100% true or not, is unknown.

If you're interpreting it to mean all orchids, then no, I'd have to say it's bunk.

But if you're talking about Oncs, or other orchids that are pollinated by nocturnal insects - it could be plausible, but in order to find out, you'd have to:

1. Find the pollinator and study it's habits.

2. Conduct true scientific experiments with controls and variables, specifically for each type of orchid in question.

3. Record your findings.

4. Study your data and interpret it.

Observations based on 1 orchid is not good enough to determine the truth of the matter. This is called a case study. Case studies can be misleading if you don't know what you're observing and if you don't know how to interpret the data recorded.

That's my best answer for you.

[Ray]

Some orchids are pollinated by moths. None by myths.

[orchidsarefun]

this has been raised before, indirectly

Hybridising - Courtesy of Lenette Orchids

as to be expected, it was dismissed out of hand, but its interesting that another ( famous ) grower mentions a similar experience. Sometimes, in the absence of exhaustive scientific tests to prove or disprove, you can just do something based on someone else's experience. I know, I do....

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

I quote myself:

"...if you're talking about Oncs, or other orchids that are pollinated by nocturnal insects - it could be plausible..."

Nocturnal insects may not necessarily mean moths, but many moths are generally acknowledged as nocturnal insects.

Not all orchids are moth pollinated.

Some are pollinated by diurnal hummingbirds.

Some are pollinated by diurnal Euglossine Bees.

Some are pollinated by diurnal wasps.

Some are pollinated by diurnal hover flies.

Some are pollinated by diurnal Carpenter Bees.

Some are pollinated by diurnal Sun Birds.

Some can even be pollinated by diurnal Honey Bees!


As far as I know, many Paphs are not moth pollinated. They are bee pollinated. Many bees tend to be diurnal.

I tend to not believe that the moon phase itself is the cause of the success. I tend to think there is something correlated to it - which is what the article is eluding to.

The reason why I proposed a scientific experiment is because there are too many variables to account for and "The Orchid Boy" is asking about something very specific.


And, no, I didn't automatically dismiss the growers' observations as being nonsense. Your interpretation of what I'm saying is not accurate. I said "...it could be plausible...", (aka it could be the case, aka it is possible), but to come to the conclusion that the greater success with intergeneric pollination is the result of it being the full moon was inconclusive.

However, when you're talking about an orchid that is known to not have a moth as a pollinator, but rather a bee, (which is usually a diurnal animal), then of course I'm going to say that in "The Orchid Boy's" specific case, I don't think it's a statement that holds up.

Look...

The growers could be on to something, but they could be way off about it.

Go ahead, I challenge you to ask yourself the question and really think about it...

Why does it coincide with the full moon? Is it really because of the moon phase or is it that the moon phase is not the cause, but rather it is something that's correlated?

Could it be because there are more viable pollinators during that time period?

Could it be because the pollinators are better at pollinating the orchids?

What are the pollinators? Are they really moths or are they something else?

Could it be because of the climate/weather? I mean, we are talking about Hawaii versus Nebraska or SoCal here.

Could it be because the Oncs were older and had more energy to produce more viable seed pods?

When do the Oncs bloom?

Could it just be timing?

Could it be that when the hybridizers are pollinating, they are pollinating strong, vigorous plants with one another?

What are the stats? Why weren't these stats recorded? What if they were recorded, would they really coincide with the claims being made?




I could keep asking a whole lot of things that I think could possibly answer the riddle to come up with the Truth.

[orchidsarefun]

in my opinion one can develop a point of view based on what other people/maybe "experts" have experienced, without having to scientifically test their experience first or afterwards.
I like curry. If an Indian friend recommends a new restaurant, I don't have to do a blind taste test of a few Indian restaurants in order to rate that one highly, or any scientific experiments first before deciding to go there. I go anyway and if I don't like it, I don't go back.
In my opinion its the same thing with orchid pollination. If breeders ( Lenette Orchids registered a LOT of orchids ) say that there is something to this moon phase pollination strategy, then its something that I would consider. I don't care if its not a scientifically proven suggestion, its something that they recommend, take it or leave it....it doesn't mean that I am going to be dancing around naked at campfires and burning incense....or howling at the moon as a result. And on the other hand there needs to be people who are scientifically grounded and require proof to add to a confirmed knowledge database. All types make the world go round. If someone want to pollinate based on moon phases, then why not ? I would be asking that anybody who does so, please report back on the results, even if unscientific and therefore random luck. I have definitely noticed "something" based on my own experience with pollinating over 50 times to date.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Ok.

I think there's some confusion about:

1. Asking for someone's opinion.

2. Asking for the truth (aka fact).

You want the truth, you gotta test it out to see if it holds up a large portion of the time to every single time, no matter what.

You want opinions, it doesn't necessarily have to hold up at all.

I'm not necessarily questioning the growers' experiences, I'm questioning the conclusion of their claims.


For example:

A long time ago, everybody observed and experienced that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Nobody challenges this, it is there for everybody to see.

At one point in time someone tried to explain this phenomena. Their explanation or conclusion for this event was that the sun must be moving around the earth, and that the earth was at the center of it all.

Then someone came along and decided to have the guts to put the claim that the earth was in the center and the sun revolved around the earth to the test.

It turns out that the earth was the one moving around the sun and that the earth was also spinning on its own axis and that was the true explanation for the sun rising and setting.

[quiltergal]

The OP asked if it were myth or fact. It can't be fact without the empirical data to support it. Simple as that.

[orchidsarefun]

Originally Posted by quiltergal

The OP asked if it were myth or fact. It can't be fact without the empirical data to support it. Simple as that.

surely the reverse also applies ? it can't be a myth without the empirical data to support that conclusion ?
As far as I am aware there is no scientific research to disprove the effects, real or imagined, of the impact of moon phases. I have asked, and until there is some presented, then you can only be presenting your opinion.
The correct answer to the OP is therefore that nobody has proved or disproved it - but there ARE a lot of opinions.

It is a fact that a lot of people rely on ( for centuries ) and believe in the Farmers Almanac....
Farmers' Almanac Gardening Calendar
According to the logic espoused here, that is all myth. Well, despite the absence of scientific fact, I do still believe there is something to it.

---------- Post added at 12:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 AM ----------

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Ok.

I'm not necessarily questioning the growers' experiences, I'm questioning the conclusion of their claims.

so, if I understand you correctly you are saying its plausible but because its not scientifically proven, their conclusions are doubtful ? Or invalid ?
If the purpose is to get a pod to successfully set, then who cares whether there is a scientific basis ? I ask that seriously. I have read tips - never remove the pollen from the recipient's bloom, pollinate more than one bloom on the stem, pollinate at a week old, pollinate at 2 days old, pollinate only in the mornings...and so on. Its up to me to try them out or not. I don't start out by thinking - well where's the scientific proof and if there is none, its a myth. You have to take into account it may have worked for them.

As it is there are so few people who propagate orchids, I would like to encourage everyone to at least try. Its not that complicated and shouldn't be made out to be.

[quiltergal]

Originally Posted by orchidsarefun

surely the reverse also applies ? it can't be a myth without the empirical data to support that conclusion ?

I don't disagree. So until someone can provide the empirical data one way or the other it is just someone's opinion. God knows everyone has one.