Fertilizing with Coffee?

[Exotix]

Has anyone done this? If so how were the results?

[Magnus A]

Never seen anything of fertilizing with coffee conserning orchids.
Though there are reports that pure caffeine diluted in water kill snails. Though, in higher concentration than in a 'normal' cup of coffee.

[Connie Star]

I've used diluted coffee to kill slugs successfully without damaging the plants.
I don't think there is much in the way of nutrients in coffee, although perhaps there are a few trace elements.

[JanS]

I wouldn't use coffee grounds for orchids: coffee is acidic and some grounds can have a very low pH which orchids generally don't care for. On the other hand, the acidity is good for some other plants like azaleas, blueberries, etc. which can benefit from coffee grounds worked into the soil around them.

As far as the killing snails bit, a couple of years ago I had a huge problem with little snails that got into my orchid pots through some plant(s?) I bought and proceeded to devastate my collection. I read up scientific literature on the use of caffeine to kill snails and the dosing - which is so much higher than can be achieved with coffee itself that using coffee or spent grounds (which have even less caffeine) makes no sense. So I bought several bottles of No-Doze (the pharmacy cashier was giving me weird looks ), dissolved them to proper concentration, used a home-made centrifuge to spin out the chalk from the pills..and watered my most affected orchids with the liquid.

If it had any effect at all, it was minor and temporary (and expensive since I spent over $20 on No-Doz to get enough liquid for just a few pots). So my advice is - DON'T BOTHER! Even the scientific papers note that effects vary from 50-70%. If you have a snail problem and need 100% snail death (who doesn't?), watering your plants with a malathion (back on the US market) solution was the only answer that worked for me.

I did notice my caffenaited orchids shaking a bit uncontrolably after that treatment, though...

[DavidCampen]

Originally Posted by JanS

... I bought several bottles of No-Doze (the pharmacy cashier was giving me weird looks ), dissolved them to proper concentration, used a home-made centrifuge to spin out the chalk from the pills..and watered my most affected orchids with the liquid.

If it had any effect at all, it was minor and temporary (and expensive since I spent over $20 on No-Doz to get enough liquid for just a few pots). So my advice is - DON'T BOTHER! Even the scientific papers note that effects vary from 50-70%. If you have a snail problem and need 100% snail death (who doesn't?), watering your plants with a malathion (back on the US market) solution was the only answer that worked for me.

I did notice my caffenaited orchids shaking a bit uncontrolably after that treatment, though...

Really, you were using caffeine at 2% and saw no effect? I have to disagree, I am using 2% caffeine solution to kill bush snails and it is very effective. When I put a drop of the 2% caffeine solution on a bush snail there is an immediate effect; the snail falls on its side and extrudes its foot, in the morning and the next day the snail is exactly where it was the night before so presumably dead. To treat a plant, I saturate the potting media with the 2% caffeine solution applied from a spray bottle; a 6-7 inch pot requires most of a 500 ml spray bottle of caffeine solution.

I buy pure caffeine, $9 for 150 grams, from NutraBio:
NutraBio caffeine anhydrous USP.

Good to know about the malathion though. If the spot treating of single plants with 2% caffeine solution is not enough and I decide to treat all of my plants then I was going to use caffeine plus Sevin but perhaps instead I would try caffeine plus malathion.

---------- Post added at 10:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 AM ----------

Even the scientific papers note that effects vary from 50-70%.

Is there more than 1 paper? The only one that I know of is this:
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...ne%20snails%22
It reports 90 - 100% mortality with 2% caffeine solution:
"To test whether caffeine solutions could be used to remove or kill large slugs that attack potted plants, we allowed Veronicella cubensis (Pfeiffer) to
bury themselves in the soil in the pots, and then thoroughly wetted the soil with a 2% caffeine solution. After 3.5 h, only 25% of the slugs remained in the soil; after 48 h, all slugs had left the soil and 92% were dead.
...
To test the effect of caffeine on snails, we treated mature orchid snails (Zonitoides arboreus (Say); about 3 mm in diameter) topically with caffeine solutions in Petri dishes ... and all snails treated with 0.5 or 2% caffeine were dead after 96 h (Fig. 2b).
...
We then carried out two greenhouse tests in which caffeine solutions were applied to the growing medium of potted orchids infested with Z. arboreus. In the first test, 1 and 2% solutions of caffeine were associated with 60 and 95% mortality, respectively (control mortality averaged 10%). In the second, larger test, a 2% solution of caffeine proved to be more effective in reducing the presence of snails than a solution of 0.195% metaldehyde, the commercial standard for orchid-snail treatment. Over 30 days, 5 snails were extracted from the medium treated with caffeine, whereas 43 and 35 snails were collected from media treated with water (control) and metaldehyde, respectively."

[JanS]

Hi David - here's my bibliography on the caffeine/snail thing: The paper you refer to was published by Hollingsworth et al. in the very prestigious journal Nature in 2002. The same group published essentially the same results a year later in another journal:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...233.x/abstract

In between, though, Simms and Wilson from Aberdeen published a sceething critique of the Hawaiian studies in a British Journal:

http://www.researchinformation.co.uk...2/B210478D.PDF

Their main point is that the media immediately embraced the Hawaiian claims because caffeine is considered "natural", despite the experiments not being well described and the concentrations needed to kill snails being much worse to the environment than other commonly used molluscicides (caffeine also kills earthworms and other beneficial critters). They state: "In summary, the scientific evidence suggests no environmental benefit whatsoever from using caffeine as a pesticide, and yet in spite of this, the discovery that caffeine kills and repels slugs was broadcast worldwide as a major scientific breakthrough – because it is not a pesticide!"

I find it interesting that after the 2003 publication there seems to be no more follow-up on the initial studies by anyone - why? I agree with Simms that drenching gardens and large fields with lethal-to-all concentrations of caffeine is not a good idea, but doing it within orchid pots in a greenhouse doesn't seem so bad - if it works. Apparently it does for you and others on the web. You are likely doing a much better job using pharma-grade caffeine that can just be mixed into water to get 2%, versus my messy extraction from No-Doze tablets. I may have actually not ended up with a full 2% solution - and note that as per the Hollingsworth results, efficiency goes way up between 1% (essentially only close to one out of every two snails die) to 2% (pretty much all snails die) - so the dosing is very critical.

Thanks for the link to buying pure caffeine - I'm gonna give this thing another try the "clean" way!

[NYCorchidman]

True, you shared your experience. I don't think it is something to disagree or agree with, It is what happened to you as a fact whatever the study says.

[Magnus A]

As a hobby orchidist you can use things that is not possibly on a commersial scale. That is a benefit. But you have a obligation to the environment! Not to endanger it, or fellow humans. But if you constrain the use, and know what you do, you can use "bad" things to get rid of some nasty bugs...

[DavidCampen]

Mesurol is I believe the only EPA approved pesticide for killing molluscs (e.g. snails and slugs):
Mesurol || Gowan T & O
I would use it if I could get it but it is not available for sale to people who do not have a pesticide applicators permit. Its mode of action is as a cholinesterase inhibitor.

Sevin is in the same chemical class as Mesurol and is also a cholinesterse inhibitor but it is available for use without a pesticide applicators permit. Its lethal dose in rats is about 1/5 to 1/10 that of Mesurol.

Malathion is also a commonly available cholinesterase inhibitor pesticide that is even less toxic to mammals than is Sevin but it is inherently stinky whereas Sevin is not.

[Stray59]

Hey everyone - another of my two cents!
Have you tried beer? Don't put it directly on the plant, but put the infested pot in a saucer that has beer in it, with the potted plant elevated out of the beer. Snails and slugs LOVE beer - they get to drinking, get drunk and drown in it. Also the alcohol in the beer affects their slime coating and they tend to absorb it through their skins - thus alcohol poisoning. If this doesn't work, then you still have 5 of the 6-pack left to finish off; you may still have snails/slugs, but they seem a lot less important by the time you are finished!!!
I have tried beer outside with my perennials and always have a bunch of dead snails in the dish the next morning. I had a hardy hibiscus that the slugs loved, so I placed a dish of beer at the base of the plant and they left the plant alone, going for the beer instead. I haven't tried this with orchids, but I don't know why it wouldn't work - may be worth a try! You will have to repeat this as new eggs hatch, but that is just another reason to buy more beer (like we need another reason to buy beer!) I find that a dark beer works best for some reason, perhaps the stronger smell.
Personally, I still use Malathion for all my pest needs - it stinks, and you should only use it in a well ventilated area, but it is effective on everything - unfortunately that also means earthworms, lady bugs, etc. Don't get it on any of your skin as it can be absorbed and is a neurotoxin I believe. My roommate can always tell when I have had an infestation (usually the occasional scale) and he avoids the bathroom until the stench is gone. In the winter this is the best place (inside the tub) with the bathroom exhaust fan going, other seasons things go outside. Once the smell is gone, the poison is degraded and no longer effective. But it works so quick it really doesn't matter.
Best of luck getting rid of the slimy pests! And Happy Easter to all!
Steve