Differing info on temps.?? - Orchid Board

greenpassion · #1 05-23-2012, 09:58 AM

I had done some correspondence with the company that I bought my LEDs from, and I mentioned that I wasn't sure if my phals were taking longer than is normal to spike and bloom - I'm too new to this to know.

The first phal I got was bloomed, from Wal-mart, over a year ago. This particular one has since been put into S/H after it was finished blooming, and has put out a tone of healthy roots, (I can see the root growth thru the glass container it's growing in) It's sent up a spike that started maybe 2mths ago. This phal was anchored in the glass pot sideways, so I decided to correct that and I 're-potted' it upright, which then of course had the spike going off straight to the side. It has begun to change course and grow up toward the light, which means it's now an "L" shaped spike! But my question is how long do they take to grow the spike to the length it needs to start to bud? This spike seems to be frozen in time. Anyway, the response I got from the guy I was in contact with said my phals were in temps too low. I keep them thru the winter at 60 to 65 degrees, with a heat mat under them. I had done this having learned from you guys here on Orchid Board. ARE my temps too low?

I have good light, air circulation, etc. Am I just impatient about how long they take to adjust to an new environment?

orchidsarefun · #2 05-23-2012, 10:26 AM

on the contrary your temps may be too high ! Phals need a period where the average temp between night and day is at least 10-15f LOWER - mainly in fall for at least 6 weeks. There is a thread on this, can't seem to find it.
I only have seedlings on a heat mat, the mat raises the temps +10-20f above the ambient temp.
That said, my phals flowered successfully in room temps - my favourable environmental factor is that in fall/winter they are in a south-facing window and the sunlight raises the day temps in the macro environment. In summer with the aircon temp set to 71f ( because of cool-growers I have ), the phals are in a South and West facing windows, L-shape, and the temps have hit 83f max, so far.
All that being said, I don't know if the above is much help specifically to you because I don't use grow-lights and I don't have s/h.

zxyqu · #3 05-23-2012, 10:42 AM

Well there are some pieces to this puzzle that I dont have, but since it's a Walmart Phal, I'll assume it's a fiarly large hybrid. If that is the case, some of these spikes can take 2-3 months before the first buds show, and another month or so before they open up. So if you've only been "spiking" for 2 months, you might just be a bit early.
Some questions though. Is this spike still actively growing? What are your temps (I ask because I think my spikes grow a bit slower when it's cooler)? How much light is the Phal getting?

camille1585 · #4 05-23-2012, 11:19 AM

Those temps are far from being too high! I'd normally say that they are a bit low, 60-65 is really at the low end of the range that they can grow in. But with a heat mat underneath you are boosting the temps at the root zone, which is the most important, and let plants take cooler temps at the leaves. But I do think the plants would be more comfortable at 65-70, or higher.

For me spikes take about 2 months to show buds when it's warm, and 3 months in the winter. From then, at another month until blooming, like Jarad says. And it can also happen that spikes stall, for no apparent reason. If you're lucky they start up again after a few weeks/months.

As for the temp difference, it is NOT between night and day. Phals need a general cooling down period of both day and night temps.

orchidsarefun · #5 05-23-2012, 12:37 PM

meant to also recommend that you join a local Orchid Society. You will pick up invaluable information on local growing conditions/recommendations etc. I have found that there is no right "way" to grow phals, only recommended. What works for one, doesn't necessarily work for all. For example I know someone, who has lovely phals, who swears off using sphag moss at all, others use it successfully. Some people say no sun for phals, yet I and others allow filtered sun and it works well for us.

another thing. I believe the temp of the water you use for watering matters. I started using an aquarium heater to warm the water uniformly and I swear I can see a difference.

greenpassion · #6 05-23-2012, 01:16 PM

Well, thanks all for the feed back. As for my water temps, I use luke warm distilled water to flush and then to feed. I took some photos of this phal with my phone. I'll send to my on line album and see if I can download it to here. And yes, the spike seems to have stopped growing. The tip of it started to die, and I treated it with Physan 20. It began to grow again from the side of the 'stumped' spike. See the photos. So, to recap, the temps are never below 60 at night, and not above 68 (thru winter and early spring) Now, the room doesn't need the pellet stove on, and it's naturally around 60, 65 at night, and currently 76 through the day. I have the windows and doors opened...

billc · #7 05-23-2012, 04:00 PM

I have species phals mounted and in pots. I also have a bunch of hybrids in s/h and my winter temps routinely go down to 50- 55 F. I find they grow a little slower but once they get used to the lower temps they do just fine. I realize they would probably like it a little warmer but that's not happening in an unheated basement in the N.E. U.S.

Bill

Magnus A · #8 05-23-2012, 06:46 PM

For phal noids there is some general temperature tricks used by commersial growers to make sure they have flowering plants to sell at specific times.

For growth alone keep them above 79-80 F. They do grow but do not send out spikes. This can accumulate enough energy to get a superb display with multiple spikes.

To make the plant send out a spike they lower the temperature to below 65-66 F. This initiate the plant to spike and a normal phal noid take 90 days from this temperature change to flower if it develope undisturbed.

A side effect is that the plants are pushed to the limit and often give a mediocre display if any the second year.

This is why we in Sweden often get our phals to flower to christmas. The temperature drop in the windows at regular homes in the beginning September when the autumn arrives give flowering phals in December :-)

greenpassion · #9 05-23-2012, 08:09 PM

To Magnus-I have my phals under LED natural light track lighting, and in winter / early spring, the temps are kept at 60 to 62, day and night, and now, it's May, the temps are around 62 at night, and 75 or so thru the days. I have them on a heat mat, and am prompted to turn this off as I also have Miltonopsis on the glass sheet with the phals. I have very little window sill room anywhere for window sill culture. What to do?

isurus79 · #10 05-23-2012, 08:53 PM

It seems like the temps are just fine, though letting them come up during summer will be a good idea.

Are there holes in the container that your plant is growing in? I ask because salts can build up if you are not flushing the media properly, which can affect flowering.

Also, did the original flower spike rot away at the tip or could it have been bumped and broken when it was moved in the pot?

Finally, how much light is your plant getting. The pics are pretty dark and fuzzy and I can't tell how the leaves look, though they seem a bit dark. Not having enough light (even with the LED system) or not having the right kind of light can have negative effects on blooming as well. I ask about this because some of the leaves look kind of floppy, which can be from lack of appropriate light. Again, however, the pic is not clear enough to get a good idea of the leaf conditions.

I should also mention that repositioning a plant that is throwing a metabolically expensive flower spike can also throw the plant for a loop and may cause a spike stall or outright abortion.