AOS Judging

[got ants]

Went to my first AOS judging yesterday. Have some mixed feelings about it, some good, some not so...

Firstly, it was a great experience and I learned a lot, Mostly about what the judges are looking for. I sat at a couple of the judging tables to see/hear what and how they judge orchids. This will help me in the future in knowing what to submit.

What perturbed me was I brought, what I thought was a great example of Cattleya mendelii. THe process of judging, they initially place gold ribbons on orchids they want to further review. Mine did not receive one. BUT, they had about 10 Phalenopsis' plants, which to me are just box store plants, and all of them got the gold ribbon, for further review.

After sitting with a few judging panels, I finally got the nerve to ask why mine was not even considered. I got mixed comments, some discerning. First they pointed out they look for flat, full flowers. It was pointed out my mendelii's dorsal petal was curling back. Uh DUH! That's what mendeliis do. But what bothered me the most was the comment from one of the judges, that they don't really judge species plants, and more so, it was recommended I bring it to the COSS for judging. REALLY!!

But, fret not, I was not discouraged, and will keep bringing my plants to be judged.

Overall it was a good experience, and the judges were friendly. I guess I need to keep showing up and get my mug known, and maybe, MAYBE, I might some day get a plant awarded. Even if 90% of my plants are SPECIES.

[Cym Ladye]

Got Ants,

A few comments on your experience. Firstly, congrats for trying with your plant!

Each judging region throughout the US has its own strengths, based on the plants most grown in the area. Florida, for instance, sees far more warm growing genera than Northern California and is more confident in those genera. That said, each region has access to the same Awards Plus data base on previous awards.

What you do not mention was that you were not told that your plant may just not have come up to the current standards of recently awarded C. mendelii and this was evident on the first general screening by the judges. I suspect many of this species have been previously awarded and the bar has gotten quite high.

If you are truly interested in learning what qualities the AOS judges are looking for, I would highly recommend purchasing AOS Awards Plus, the program which will give you all the past AOS awards in all genera as well as the ongoing record of what is currently being AOS awarded.

Another program to purchase is OrchidWiz, a list of all past orchid awards in the world. It has been limited recently in AOS photo reproduction because of dissent with the AOS on the question of who owns the photo award rights, but nevertheless is the first program I open to start research on any orchid I am looking for. Hopefully the AOS photo conflict will be solved in the near future.

Using both these programs, you will be able to view past awards with the measurements and photos and then compare your plant and see how it stacks up. However, be prepared not to get an award just because your plant appears better to you in all facets. More than once I have been disappointed in not getting an award when I knew it deserved one, but then pleasantly surprised when one I had questions on gets a high award.

Bottom line, just keep trying! As the quality of your plants improves, so will your reputation as a quality grower. As exhibitors we all started somewhere, and not at the top, I assure you!

All the best,

Cym Ladye

[ronaldhanko]

Originally Posted by Cym Ladye

Firstly, congrats for trying with your plant!

Each judging region throughout the US has its own strengths, based on the plants most grown in the area. Florida, for instance, sees far more warm growing genera than Northern California and is more confident in those genera. That said, each region has access to the same Awards Plus data base on previous awards.

What you do not mention was that you were not told that your plant may just not have come up to the current standards of recently awarded C. mendelii and this was evident on the first general screening by the judges. I suspect many of this species have been previously awarded and the bar has gotten quite high.

Really interesting to see your reaction and I whole-heartedly agree with what has been said. I would add, however, that in my opinion the judging system has improved both in the willingness of judges to look at plants that they are not themselves very comfortable with and in the attitude of the judges. That's not to say that it can't continue to improve, but I for one would hate to see the whole judging system collapse for lack of support. I think it performs a valuable service and am always amazed at the sacrifices the judges make to fulfill their obligations and to do so voluntarily. I appreciate very much all they do.

[goodgollymissmolly]

Whoever said that species are not commonly awarded is certainly off-base and I hope you misunderstood what was said. I grow almost nothing but species and have a lot of awards.

That said you will learn that past awards become the standard for future awards. Sort of a continuous improvement thing. Since Cattleyas were spectacular in the late 40's thru the mid 60's there is an extremely high bar to jump to get a species Catt awarded. Believe me that I was excited to get an AM on a trianae not long ago.

Judging varies some from region to region because some plants grow better in specific climates. Vandas in FL are great, but Masdies are not much and are not too common.

Some judges are better than others, but it varies with what they are familiar with. Judges are allowed to seek advice when confronted with a genus they don't know well. When something unusual shows up, most judges listen to one who grows and knows the genus. In many cases all the judges on a team will know the common genera and contribute equally. I'm sure some judge somewhere is dishonest, but I have never seen one. Honesty, fairness, and integrity are the most prized attributes of judges and Judging Centers.

Two things I would point out about your experience. First, don't assume that you know more than those who have trained for years to judge and seen many more plants than you have. Second, be careful about asking for reasons that your plant was not nominated. Every judge present independently considers all entries for nomination for further consideration. If any one judge nominates a plant it is considered further by a team of at least 3 judges, often more than 3. I don't know or want to know what center you visited, but it's common for 12-20 judges to be present on judging day. If your plant was not nominated by a single one of 12-20 judges then you can bet it has some difficiencies. When judges are confronted with a question like yours most of them are as gentle as possible in being critical. No one wants to discourage you. They want you to come back. If you can gain the confidence of someone and let them know you want an honest answer and can handle it, you may get a better response.

I 'm going to risk it....if no judge present nominated your plant, it wasn't very good. Your best reaction would be to try and understand why that is. No one is going to just say your baby is ugly. You are going to have to improve your knowledge.

[got ants]

I appreciate the responses here. Firstly, I was not put off by my plant being selected to be judged, I just was curious why it wasn't why a whole slew of Phals were.

This is a pic of the Phals, and only one wasn't chosen to be looked at....



And, here is my plant. Not spectacular, but in comparison to all the Phals, it seems odd....






Overall, he judging experience was very positive, and I learned a lot from that single experience, and will be back.

[rangiku]

I can tell you that the Phal on the very left is a pretty rare one from a seedling population and only the yellow on the far left could be found at a big box store. Whether all should have been pulled for judging is another matter. Perhaps the senior judges wanted to test the student judges.

At my Judging Center, awardable Phals don't get the time of day. Go figure.

[rangiku]

I took a look over at the Orchids Plus section of aos.org (online version of AQ+). Cattleya mendelii has been awarded six times, first in 1985 and most recently twice in 2008. The minimum number of flowers was two, with the maximum of 10.

Here are two of the award winners that I'm sure were used to judge yours by:

[RJSquirrel]

Its nice to know when you start to get better at this what plants to bring up for judging also.


Its always okey to ask and thats whats its about is learning. if you dont know you have to ask. also be aware that the truth is often painful and can bankrupt a hobby growers ego bank.

[goodgollymissmolly]

I agree that you might be underestimating what you see in the Phals. I agree that the big box mericlones have really diminished the efforts of Phal hybridizers by over exposing floofy flowers to the public. That said, Phal hybrids are sometimes very worthy of awards. Don't just dismiss them so easily.The bar is very high.

Might I make a suggestion? Anyone can go to judging and sign up as an observer. You don't need to take a plant, just yourself. You will be assigned to a team and can hear all the conversation and see the procedure and results without the distraction of wondering about a plant that you own and care for.

It's a great way to learn about both orchids and judging orchids. I can't speak for every last Judging Center, but the ones that I know about are very happy to have you and will (when appropriate) even ask for your observations and if you have any questions about what happened.

Secondly, consider subscribing to AQPlus (ever so slowly migrating to OrchidsPlus as mentioned above). Then you can research your own plants before taking them in for judging. That can teach you a lot and avoid some unnecessary trips.

I'm glad you are interested and I hope you continue to be interested. Those who don't try for awards are missing one of the fun parts of growing orchids.

[got ants]

Thanks for the input folks. I will be continuing to go to these events. One thing I learned at that meeting was that I can in fact have AQ+ and Orchid Whiz on my macbook Pro, as a few of the judges had macs there. I still have to figure out how to do it, something about using the program Parallels, and an external hard drive, but I will sort it out, and get both of those programs.

As for the judges knowing what the previous awarded plants to mine were, unless they've all seen them before, no one had the chance to look them up on either program, as that was only done once a plant was chosen for further inspection.

I have no false hopes of receiving an award, I just wanted to get familiar with the process. I am not sure any plant received one that day. There is such a high standard to achieve, and now I have a little knowledge of where to go with this.

Again, thank you all for your inputs.

Brady