Beneficial fungus....?

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

The need for repotting is because the soil goes bad. It goes bad faster because there's fungi and bacteria in a small space. In the wild, all this gets turned over on a regular basis after a while.

I'm currently growing some terrestrial orchids and I've only had them for about 3 - 4 months. When I first potted them up, I could see the fresh cypress mulch. Now I can't see any. The top soil's lookin' kinda raunchy too.

You could use molasses and whatever else you think might feed the mycorrhizae, but it may not be a "complete" diet without the wood. There's a reason the fungi are mooching off the trees, we just don't fully understand the reason for this dependency just quite yet (scientists are getting closer and closer over time though).

I use whatever I can find to feed the mycorrhizae as well. The last thing I used was a crested gecko food powder. It is one of the things I have plenty of and am afraid of spoiling because I quite frankly don't have very many geckos of significant size at the moment. Everything eats it, the bacteria, the fungi, the insects, it's gone in a period of a couple weeks.

I forgot to mention, don't use traditional fertilizers with anything that has mycorrhizal dependencies. The fungi can die from fertilizer burn.

[dabblin-n-orchids]

Corallorhiza have become somewhat of a fascination of mine since i first found them growing in the mountains of New Mexico. based on my by no means rigorously scientific observations (though i would love to do a large scale project. now to find a graduate program that will let me ) the symbiotic fungus isn't too picky about species, moisture, or elevation (and all the temperature and precipitation variations that go along with it). the common factors i have noticed is that it is open coniferous forests (ponderosa at lower elevations and spruce and fir higher up) with little undergrowth and a very dense almost loam of needles and bark. (when you step or dig into that stuff you can tell it is just chock full of fungal hyphae)

also based on my understanding of the relationship between the Corallorhiza, the fungus, and the host tree, the fungus (which isn't TOO picky about it's host tree) invades the tree's root system and siphons off simple carbohydrates (likely in return for some sort of protection against pathogenic fungus but that is not well understood) the Corallorhiza (which is VERY picky about it's host fungus i believe) in turn establishes itself in the fungal hyphae and draws all of it's nutrients from the fungus. so it would stand to reason that if you were to obtain a sample of this pine loam with the specific strain of fungus growing in it and maintain it with a constant supply of pine needles and bark as well as some simple glucose nutrient solution you should be able to maintain it. and as long as the fungus is alive the orchid should be too.

replicating the temperatures required though would be another matter. and due to their achlorophylous nature temperature cues are what regulate the plant's growth and bloom cycle. i would assume they need a COLD winter rest, a chilly damp spring (snowmelt) a dry hot early summer (when they tend to bloom) followed by a hot "wet" later summer with daily watering but the media drys before nightfall (NM's equivalent of a "wet" season. daily thunderstorms and bone dry by the time the sun goes down) and probably a fairly moist fall. this is of course all speculation on my part based on what i know about the seasons in that one area in which they are found.

[keithrs]

I did alittle research and found out that some orchids like the coral root use the fungi connect to the root/s of a tree to translocate photosynthates to the plant.

[Bud]

That is a precise concise dissertation, Michael. But it still lacks a resounding conclusion. I will take into consideration that you actually experienced it so Ill give you an A instead of an A+

[dabblin-n-orchids]

hahaha sadly the resounding conclusion we both are looking for can only come after i collect soil and root samples from a variety of Corallorhiza at different elevations in both spruce and ponderosa forests. identify the symbiotic fungus and see if they only associate with a single species or multiple species. then determine if the fungus can be cultured in a container of pine needles and bark without a host tree of i provide it with sugars and other nutrients. THEN (assuming i can culture the fungus effectively) obtain permission to collect Corallorhiza seeds. sow them in the container with my fungus. and assuming they germinate see what sort of temperature and moisture cues they respond to.

simple enough now all i have to do is find a lab and funding!

---------- Post added at 11:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 PM ----------

thanks to google scholar and a general disdain for tonight's homework i have determined that the above research i just proposed has already been done to some degree (i don't know how to insert links in that fancy way so here is the URL where you can access the study Population, habitat and genetic correlates of mycorrhizal specialization in the []cheating’ orchids Corallorhiza maculata and C. mertensiana - Lee Taylor - 2002 - Molecular Ecology - Wiley Online Library) it looks like C. maculata, the spotted coral root, isn't too picky about it's fungus and associates with over 20 different species.

[RedOrchid]

Instead I had been using mycro teas with fairly good results.

What is a mycro tea? What is it made out of. Can you buy it somewhere?

thanks
Ruth

[Bud]

Ruth, the mycro tea is a concoction made from different ingredients...I dont think its sold commercially unless Keith sells his formula...
I use worm tea, to supplement my fertilizer regimen and also seaweed mix(you can google them and its commercially available online)

*Thanks for the info, Michael

[keithrs]

There are company's that sell micro teas... Fox farms is one off the top of my head.... That said, if you brew your own you will have much more diverse and more effective solution. You can also give Jerry from orchidsamore a buzz. He sells a beneficial solution that acts like a fungicide too for a reasonable price...

[Discus]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Feed mycorrhizae with wood chips, preferably from the same kind of conifer trees that are growing around the area.

I don't think this would work if it were an obligate mycorrhiza with trees though (assuming such a thing exists) - wood is not the same thing as live tree roots

Of course, if it were only a mycorrhiza with the orchid, and otherwise a saprotroph, the decaying leaves of the tree might be a better food source than the wood, particularly if the fungus usually ekes out a living in the leaf litter.

I can imagine there are some interesting isotope (stable or otherwise) studies to be done to figure out who is getting carbon from where!

P.s. thanks for the notes/ideas a couple pages back

[camille1585]

I also think that wood chips would not work. Myccorhizal fungus are not saprophytes, they have a mutualistic relation with plants. They need to interact with a living plant in order to get carbohydrates and complex sugars from the vascular system. Those things a dead piece of wood simply won't provide.
In the case of Neottia, I see the fungi as a sort of IV drip, transferring nutrients from tree roots to the orchid!