Sap to water orchids? (its sugaring time again) - Orchid Board

beelady · #1 02-18-2011, 01:03 AM

well its now time to tap the black walnut trees.. (you can tap them like maples . but the sugar content is just a bit lower.. tho not by much)
we get gallons of sap crystal clear.. tastes like a cross of distiled water and a hint of sugar.and its o so good to drink straight (using cup of course) out of the bucket as i harvest it... but out of curriosity. i was wondering if it would be a viable water source.. would it.. having trace minerals..etc be a good type of fertilizer water?
unfortunately i could not find a write up of the chemical composition of black walnut sap.. but i did find something about maple syrup.. which should be similar except not as much sugar.thinking about.. testing out some on a phal i have. just to see. does it make a diff?

The sap of sugar maple contains sucrose and trace amount of oligosaccharides including raffinose (Willits, 1958). The concentration of sucrose in the sap is typically 2-3%, though it can range from 0.5 - 10% (Kozlowski & Pallardy, 1997). mably because of the advantage due to photosynthesis (Kozlowski & Pallardy, 1997).
Other organic compounds in the sap include organic acids, amino acids, amides, ammonia, and peptides. The organic acids in the sap include malic (0.21%), citric (0.002%), and traces of succinic, fumaric and several others. The total ash (mineral) content of the sap is 0.66 %. Common minerals include potassium (0.26%), calcium (0.07%), silicon oxide (0.02%) and lesser amounts of manganese, sodium, and magnesium (Willets, 1958).

BobInBonita · #2 02-18-2011, 01:28 AM

I have never tried anything like this on an orchid, but many years ago tried pouring my leftover coffee (I used to us sugar in my coffee) on a ficus tree in my office.

It worked well for a while, but I developed a real mold problem in the soil. My guess was that naturally present mold started to ferment the sugar, and multiplied to the point of taking over.

Outside, the sugar might attract sweet-loving insects (ants, bees, ???) that you might not want around your orchid.

The analysis you gave didn't show very many nitrogen containing compounds, so it probably wouldn't be a great fertilizer. The pH would probably be acid (especially after fermentation).

If you have a spare phal, I'd try the experiment - please keep us posted so we all learn from it.

Gin · #3 02-18-2011, 12:03 PM

My first thought was Ants ! I use liquid bait in the green house in time the sugar in it creates a black mold

Gin

Daethen · #4 02-18-2011, 02:19 PM

I would be careful of using walnut water. Walnut trees tend to kill off other plants that grow in their territory so that they do not have to compete for nutrients. Not sure what it is they do, but it may cause a problem.

beelady · #5 02-19-2011, 10:50 PM

right. that is from the husks.. the bark and the wood.. the sap tapt from it has verry little if any at all. ill see tho what i can find out if there is any of that stuff in the sap itself.

BobInBonita · #6 02-19-2011, 10:55 PM

Just curious - why did you want to do this anyway?

tucker85 · #7 02-19-2011, 10:56 PM

Some home made fertilizer formulas call for mollasses. Some people say it's because of the trace elements in the molasses but I think it increases microbe activity which produces by-products that benefit the plants. I've never tried it myself.

BobInBonita · #8 02-20-2011, 12:14 AM

I seem to remember from a tour of a sugar refinery in Louisiana (many years ago) that when sugar is crystallized, the left over "stuff" that doesn't crystallize becomes molasses. All the minerals from the sugar cane wind up in molasses, so it would be a good source of trace minerals - even used to be taken as a sort of tonic. The sap wouldn't be concentrated.

The microbial thing is possible, but would it favor "good" or "nefarious" microbes? Many fungi actively metabolize sugars, but some are synergistic and some are harmful. Bacterial fermentation of sugars usually produces acids which would not only drop the pH (increase mineral uptake?), but also shift the flora.

All hypothetical, which leads my curiosity back to the question - why do you want to do this ('cause you got me guessing)?

Eyebabe · #9 02-20-2011, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobInBonita

I have never tried anything like this on an orchid, but many years ago tried pouring my leftover coffee (I used to us sugar in my coffee) on a ficus tree in my office.

It worked well for a while, but I developed a real mold problem in the soil. My guess was that naturally present mold started to ferment the sugar, and multiplied to the point of taking over.

Outside, the sugar might attract sweet-loving insects (ants, bees, ???) that you might not want around your orchid.

The analysis you gave didn't show very many nitrogen containing compounds, so it probably wouldn't be a great fertilizer. The pH would probably be acid (especially after fermentation).

If you have a spare phal, I'd try the experiment - please keep us posted so we all learn from it.

If you have hydrangeas, you can throw your old coffee and coffee grounds on the soil at the bottom of the plants in your yard and after some time of doing this your hydrangeas will bloom the most awesome blue color.
I believe it is because the soil is made more acidic.
Alkaline soil make them bloom pink.
Here where I live, we have lots of clay and very alkaline soil...so around 9 am most Saturdays, I can wave to all the neighbors around here as we all have marched out to our hydrangeas with the coffee grounds

(It's the poor mans "Hollytone")

keithrs · #10 02-20-2011, 01:06 PM

Molasses and complex sugars have been used in the organic farming world for years. It give the plant a very good source of carbs to grow big and give good size fruit. Though it should only be applied as a foliage fertilizer and not in the soil as it will grow fungus in the soil and you will end up with a horrible problem on your hand!!!!! I spray top and more important, the bottom side of my tomato plant leaves every other week at about 8am. Right as the pours start to open on the leaves. Leaves are what makes the surgars for the plant to grow. Warning.... This will bring ants. I use baking soda sprinkled in the soil. It's poisonous to them.

Im not sure that all orchids have stomata on the under side of there leaves or not. If not than this will not work.

May be someone on here knows?!?!?!