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  #21  
Old 01-06-2010, 08:10 PM
Rex Anglorum Rex Anglorum is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Shipping orchids in the dead of Winter.  Good idea? Male
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I want to thank everyone who responded to my original post. Just hearing about your orchid buying experiences is fun!

As for the question at hand, it seems like people have had success either way--ordering in winter and waiting until spring. Whatever happens, I am going to wait until this current extreme cold-wave that has gripped much of North America passes and things mellow out some over the next couple of weeks.

As for the vendor suggestions, Orchids in Our Tropics is new to me, but their prices are low enough to probably pay for the higher Canada-to-U.S. shipping charges I would incur.

I will also check out First Rays.

Thanks again and all the best,

C.J.
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  #22  
Old 01-07-2010, 06:47 AM
orchidsamore orchidsamore is offline
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Shipping orchids in the dead of Winter.  Good idea? Male
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I enjoyed hearing the different opinions on winter shipping.

I ship any day of the year regardless of temperature. A well packed plant will arrive in good condition.

The thing I notice everyone ignores is that heat in the summer is a bigger danger than cold in the winter. I only replaced two plants last year because of damage in shipping and both were summer shipments none in the winter.

As to heat packs - you may not like this opinion but having used tens of thousands of them when I used to ship tropical fish and now with orchids - I can say they do not work. They are a placebo for the recipient. A heat pack only lasts 10-12 hours at best. From the time the package is opened to the time the first courier places it on a plane it is already finished. It then sits overnight in some northern terminal. The heat also is concentrated on whatever is touching it and it is not hot enough to move heat through the plant to the other side of the package.

Couriers have heated rooms for perishable products. If they are placed there the plants will arrive fine with or without heat packs.

I received earlier today two shipments from Hawaii (no heat packs) worth over $5000 all of which were flowering plants (probably 1400 flower buds not one blasted). Neither the shippers nor I ever considered the temperature. We do this every week and there are never losses in winter. The couriers and their drivers are very conscientious because of the cold. In the warmth of the summer they are more careless.

It is 33 degrees right now in Florida and I will be shipping Monday to Washington State. I do not expect problems and I do guarantee good arrival.

Last edited by orchidsamore; 01-07-2010 at 06:50 AM..
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  #23  
Old 01-07-2010, 10:07 AM
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Ray Ray is offline
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Shipping orchids in the dead of Winter.  Good idea? Male
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orchidsamore View Post
The thing I notice everyone ignores is that heat in the summer is a bigger danger than cold in the winter.
No argument there Jerry, but this is a thread about winter shipments.

Quote:
As to heat packs - you may not like this opinion but having used tens of thousands of them when I used to ship tropical fish and now with orchids - I can say they do not work. They are a placebo for the recipient. A heat pack only lasts 10-12 hours at best. From the time the package is opened to the time the first courier places it on a plane it is already finished. It then sits overnight in some northern terminal. The heat also is concentrated on whatever is touching it and it is not hot enough to move heat through the plant to the other side of the package.
This I have to disagree with, or at a minimum it makes me think you haven't checked out the newer packs.

About 10 years ago or so, Rod Venger put a temperature recorder in a box with a 48-hour heat pack out in the winter weather (Colorado Springs), and the air in the box stayed above 50° for about 42 hours. More recently, the moderating technology has improved those to 60- or even 72 hours.

When using heat packs, it is important to consider the volume of the box so you can use the correct number of packs, and be sure to allow air infiltration.

All of these packs are based upon iron filings and salt - once exposed to oxygen and water (humidity), the salt accelerates the oxidation (rusting) of the iron, which is an exothermic reaction. Particle size and the addition of other stuff (carbon, coir dust, etc.) control the reaction rate and life of the pack. However, they all have one thing in common - if you totally seal the box, the air infiltration will be insufficient to sustain the oxidation reaction, and the process will shut down, rending a cold heat pack.

Quote:
Couriers have heated rooms for perishable products. If they are placed there the plants will arrive fine with or without heat packs.

I received earlier today two shipments from Hawaii (no heat packs) worth over $5000 all of which were flowering plants (probably 1400 flower buds not one blasted). Neither the shippers nor I ever considered the temperature.
No argument there, either. However, one should not equate the large-scale transport of agricultural products from Hawaii to the mainland with domestic shipping. FedEx, for example, is one of the largest transporters of such goods from Hawaii, and has dedicated, temperature-controlled aircraft and receiving facilities specifically for them. Likewise, their deliveries out of those facilities are expedited to avoid prolonged exposure to the weather. Unfortunately, your average distribution terminal does not have any temperature-controlled space at all, and their trucks and vans are usually unheated as well.

I actually learned this "the hard way", at work: being the corporate logistics manager for a $500-million specialty chemicals company, I got involved with all aspects of shipping and warehousing. We spent between $15,000 and $20,000 a week on FedEx and UPS (and that was at a discount rate I cannot even approach for First Rays). Some of the chemicals we shipped were highly temperature-sensitive, and even with priority-type express deliveries (those that go overnight and are delivered first thing in the morning), we saw some freezing. Because of that, I've been in terminals all over North America, and unless they are dedicated to horticulture/agriculture, there's no exceptional temperature control.
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  #24  
Old 01-07-2010, 11:49 AM
fotofashion fotofashion is offline
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Shipping orchids in the dead of Winter.  Good idea? Female
Default Shipping orchids in the dead of winter

Suzanne: Thanks for the suggestion of going to a local seller to get my "fix". And that might be a possibility IF the local Orchid Society meeting tonight is held. The weather is going to be so bad here tonight that I just e-mailed the president of the society to ask if the meeting would be held. I live some 50 miles from the place so it might be too risky. I hate to miss it, because the speaker we are having will speak on orchids of Peru and then there is the raffle table and silent auction table and the show table and maybe a vendor. Sigh.
Beverly A.
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  #25  
Old 01-07-2010, 08:39 PM
Mini Mad Mini Mad is offline
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Shipping orchids in the dead of Winter.  Good idea? Female
Unhappy What's too cold?

I had to postpone a shipment from orchids-forever and may have to delay another week. I hope every one will be ok. No power outs. This is the last thing the US needs.
We, the US is experiencing an unusually frigid winter. Global warming? Lori
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  #26  
Old 01-07-2010, 09:28 PM
nhman nhman is offline
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Shipping orchids in the dead of Winter.  Good idea? Male
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As to the basis of this post:

1) Winter Shipments
2) Miltoniposis

I have "lived" on winter shipments for the last 5 years (I live and grow in New Hampshire - yes, it IS COLD here from Nov to May!!!) from a variety of venders from all over the US (CA, Hawaii, etc.) with only 1 bad result ever- that the shipper was to blame for (and was sent new, good plants at no extra charge to replace those)
Ivan at Komoda orchids has the BEST Milt. plants that I've ever seen - great quality and health and a wonderful person to deal with. 'Nuf said.
Enjoy!!!
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