Phal Leaf Drop

[Royal]

I've been growing for about 9 years and I grow mostly Cattleya alliance but have recently bulked up my Phal collection. I'm not quite as in tune with observing symptoms of my cultural deficiencies for Phals as I am with Catts.

What is the primary cause of leaf drop in Phalaenopsis? My mediocre culture is fine for some of the tougher Catts, but some of my new Phals are sulking. Shall I focus most of my attention on temps, water, light, air, or something completely different. They are doing OK, but I know I can do better. Thanks in advance.

[Erce]

they have to adjust to your inveriment - and its normal for phal to lose there lower leafs! Is the roots ok? then its normal - who and with what do you water?
I have my phals going on the more wet side, and never lost a leaf, not even when repotting - i now have a phal with more then 28 leafs - its so nasty big

[johnblagg]

I have found phals to be very tough and easy to grow as long as you find the medium they like in your conditions mine get a pretty constant temp in winter of about 65 and they summer outside under a tree and get waterd by nature for the most part.

They are planted in rice hulls from the local grain bin that are thrown away after they clean the rice so they have great drainage and they get repotted in spring and again in fall before I take them inside.

the rice hulls are basicly s/h and they sit in saucers that are allowed to hold water in summer and kept drier in winter inside.

I have never had any leaf drop unless its old leaves that are done.

Light in winter is a 400 watt mh 3 feet above them and a west facing picture window.

heat in winter is a wood stove and as I said the house is a pretty constant 65 degrees.

I cant grow in bark worth a darn but rice hulls do great and actually release nutrients as they break down so they get a consistant feed in addition to weekly ochid fertlizer.

[Shirley]

Originally Posted by johnblagg

They are planted in rice hulls from the local grain bin that are thrown away after they clean the rice so they have great drainage and they get repotted in spring and again in fall before I take them inside.

the rice hulls are basicly s/h and they sit in saucers that are allowed to hold water in summer and kept drier in winter inside.

.

John, I'd be very interested to see what a rice hull looks like as I've never heard of them before. Do you have a photo?

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Hey, Royal!

Yup...Phals, those darn Phals...

Yes, bottom leaves do naturally yellow and drop with age.

As some have mentioned, it can take a long while for them to establish themselves. But leaves never go limp in this process.

For example, my little Phal appendiculata put out a new leaf after a month of acquiring it. But...it finally put out a new root well after a year of obtaining it (I got it in August of last year).

Just remember they grow in tropical lowland or midland swamp forests in Asia, sometimes even near large bodies of water (large rivers or streams).

Moderate to high humidity helps (60% - 100%).

Temp: intermediate to warm (60 F - 90 F), ideally. If it shoots over a hundred make sure there's lots of ventilation in the room (open windows, fans - just don't aim the fans directly at the plant), and watch how fast the media dries out. Maybe even a large bucket of water underneath can help if the temperatures go that high.

I will explain the whole temperature thing a little more...

In Indonesia, there are very few, if any, orchids that survive temperatures over 100F in the wild. Many of the orchids are found in higher elevations. My parents keep telling me orchids in the wild start showing up in places that get to be in the 90's F. The higher up you go in elevation, and the more the temperatures become more intermediate, the higher the orchid diversity.

Believe it or not, there are certain places in Indonesia that aren't steaming hot houses. Some places that are still "green" and in the middle elevations are cooler and much more comfortable to be in than the blistering hot cities.

If you've ever grown a Pleurothallis, watering is just like that. Allow the media to dry to dampness, then water again.

However, I come from the school of never grow Phals in full moss. Potted in bark is fine. Potted in bark with thin moss top layer good. Mounting them is in my opinion a much better way to go. Or if you have low humidity, semi-hydroponics might be for you.

In fact, mount culture and semi-hydroponics is closer in principle to the way a Phal grows in nature (okay...mounting is obvious, s/h takes a bit more imagination).

As someone mentioned check the roots. With Phals, the main focus will be the roots.

Light is bright shade.

I'm sure you've heard my spiel and seen the pics in the links I've posted in the past, so I won't continue on unless you need more specific care info.

I also want to say...

I agree with you, Catts and Laelias are much easier to grow than Phals. Before I understood Phals, there were so many that made it to an early grave compared to Cattleyas.

[greenbean]

Funnily enough, I'm of the opinion that pure sphag is excellent for Phalaenopsis and that the Cattleya alliance is more difficult than Phalaenopsis. Then again, my first orchid was a Phalaenopsis growing in pure sphagnum and my second orchid was a Sophrolaeliocattleya that had no roots. Go figure. lol

The biggest mistakes people make with pure sphag are packing it too tightly and watering too often. (Yes I've heard the arguments against mediums that allow infrequent watering)

As everyone else has said, phals naturally lose their lower leaves as they age. If you've only lost one or two of the lower leaves, there's probably nothing to worry about. I once lost the leaf next to the bottom because the base was pierced in the midvein by a flower spike and by numerous roots.

However, as King very correctly stated, the focus with phals really is the roots. Check the roots. If they are soft they've been overwatered and may have an infection. If they are shriveled they've gotten too dry. Adjust your habits, and maybe the media, accordingly to improve root health and the rest of the plant should follow.

So are you losing lots of leaves and/or losing leaves that are not just on the bottom? Or are you losing one or two leaves from the bottom? Give us details of the symptoms of the plant and your habits and growing conditions, please.

[Royal]

Thanks for the responses, everybody! I do appreciate all the info, but I'm not really new to Phals. Actually my first orchid was a NOID Phal and I've grown it for 9 years just fine. Last month I gave it to my sister with two spikes, 8 sets of leaves, and a 24"+ leaf span. Perhaps I should have been more clear with my question.

Other than natural growth patterns, what would be the primary cause for a Phal to loose leaves?

[herfy]

I think just the opposite..Phals are a pain and very wimpy compared to Catts..But that is just me, and my conditions.Then again I can't grow anything in bark so,the problem maybe just me.

[Erce]

i have phal i both bark and spag - the spag-chids get water like once every 2 weeks and my chids in bark get water 2-3 times a week, so im in for the spag! I use plastic pots where i made large holes in the sides for more airflow - this works ´well for me! On the other side i keep killing my dens

[johnblagg]

Originally Posted by Shirley

John, I'd be very interested to see what a rice hull looks like as I've never heard of them before. Do you have a photo?

Here I think this will help I found several sources online to buy them just google rice hulls.

I get throw aways at the local rice bins here in my area so they are free for me.

They take quite a long time to break down due to high lignin and silica content so they last quite well.They need watered often since when fresh they are fairly water proof and dont adsorbe water much at first.They have almost perfect drainage at first also and I usually mix them with some that have composted for a while to adjust the water retention.