using antibiotis on orchids?

[Connie Star]

Okay, Dr Connie Star here: (That's people doctor, not plant doctor).
Triamcinolone is not anti fungal- in fact, it's a steroid and is pro-fungal. It's often combined with an anti-fungal such as clotrimazole, miconazole or nystatin, anti fungals that are over-the-counter- OTC by themselves but Rx when they include triamcinolone. This steroid is useful for fighting the inflammation that often accompanies human fungal infections. I've heard it referred to as the dermatologists aspirin. If anything triamcinolone alone would encourage fungi.
Bacitracin and neosporin (aka triple antibiotic cream) are antibacterial and are OTC in the US. Bacitracin is primarily for gram positive cocci; to my knowledge there are none of these that are plant pathogens. It's always possible that it is the vehicle that is helpful, not the ingredient.
Erwinia is one bacterial plant pathogen. It's a gram-negative rod so bacitracin is no use; neosporin might be.
It's always fascinated me that there are so many fungal plant pathogens, and so few serious human fungal infections, except in immunocompromised hosts. On the other hand there are many human bacterial pathogens, but few plant bacterial pathogens. I did my botany master's research on one, agrobacterium tumefascians, aka crown gall. Very obscure basic science about membrane transfer of potassium (the K in N-P-K).
I have a fascinating factoid or two. It seems that Erwinia carotovera has DNA homologies (ie, similarities) with Legionella pneumophila, the cause of Legionaires disease.
So an MS in botany and MD degree may not be so crazy after all.

[Ray]

Ooooohhhhh, Connie! I just LOVE it when you talk science to me.

I have heard of folks using OTC antibiotic cremes and ointments on plants, and I think that Ross is right - you really are not affecting the damaged tissue, but may be treating the organism that causes the damage, slowing or stopping its progression.

One of the potential issues with "people ointments" is the petrolatum base, which may be damaging to the plant by itself. That is why you will often see plant ointments (like cloning, or keiki-inducing ones) based upon lanolin instead.

I have long been a proponent of cinnamon as a fungicide, and it is a mild bactericide too, but I don't know much about which kinds it affects, other than Helicobacter pylori (H. pylori) which is believed to be responsible for some peptic ulcers in people.

The active ingredient is cinnamaldehyde, which can be extracted (i.e., make an infusion) in water or rubbing alcohol. I have also made up poultices with Elmer's Glue and with lanolin (I have cured athlete's foot with that one - makes your feet smell great, but the brown goo between the toes is too much to deal with).

There is a major aspect of this discussion that we has so-far ignored - prevention.

If you are constantly dealing with rots of any sort, something is seriously wrong with your culture - letting water stand on plants when they "go to bed" at night, insufficient air movement, or something along those lines.

[Ross]

Originally Posted by Ray

There is a major aspect of this discussion that we has so-far ignored - prevention.

If you are constantly dealing with rots of any sort, something is seriously wrong with your culture - letting water stand on plants when they "go to bed" at night, insufficient air movement, or something along those lines.

That was my thoughts exactly, but not the original question. If there were only one thing I have learned from you, Ray, it's that rot tends to be a symptom, not the subject that needs to be dealt with. Of course I also enjoy reading the technical answers such as yours and Connie's. I just don't understand most of what I read. I look for the bottom line. In this case I think it is that what we use to attempt to "cure" rot or decay is not so important as is proper culture that helps prevent the rot and decay.

[johnblagg]

now there were some good answers ...thank you.

I do not have a major problem with rots and have good air movement although I am guilty of misting a little late in the day.

The few spots I did treat were tiny black spots on one leaf that were sunken ...the stuff did stop it in its tracks and as I said I dont have a clue wht was the responsible agent It may welll have been the several forms of alcohols in the base as connie suggests.

the other use was on th ebase of a pb but well above the level of the hydrotron and also a small area ....THis one was black looking but apparently on the very outer surface still and aging the cortisteriod stopped it in its track again.The very next day the black rubed off with a qtip and the area under it was a more of a tan color and dry.

if it is the alcohol in the base "this one is water soluable at least to a degree I did mix some with water to check before I applied it for the very reason Ray stated of oil bases not being the best thing on plants" Then would alchol have possible givin the same results?

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[johnblagg]

hope this file will upload ...lol

anyways a little pdf file on some bacterial problems in other plants and treatments.

It seems the use of antibiotics after infection is of small help according to this.

well it wont upload a pdf it seems ...sorry so here is a excerpt of it

3. Chemical Applications
• Applications of copper-containing compounds or Bordeaux mixture (copper sulfate and lime).
• Antibiotics: streptomycin and/or oxytetracycline may also help kill or suppress plant pathogenic bacteria prior to infection and reduce spread of the disease, but they will not cure plants that are already diseased.
• Antibiotics are also used to treat diseases caused by fastidious vascular bacteria. Phytoplasmas and spiroplasmas are susceptible to certain antibiotics, particularly tetracycline, which has been used to treat pear trees with the pear decline disease. Tetracycline must be injected into mature trees on a routine or therapeutic schedule to be effective and even then only appears to suppress the development of symptoms rather than curing the infected plant. Applications made during the early stages of infection tend to be more effective than in the later stages of disease development.
• Insect control will help to eliminate vectors or reduce feeding wounds that can provide points of entry.

[Connie Star]

The basics of "vehicles" in medications:
Ointment is petroleum based
Cream is water miscible, like lanolin and all those long sounding names they include on the labels
Lotion is water based
Gel is alcohol based.
Of course there are degrees of each, from pure petroleum jelly on one end to pure water to pure alcohol (but there are different alcohols) and every imaginable combination that a drug company can patent.
So

[Connie Star]

I guess I'll have to go back to grad school and get my PD (Plant Doctor) to go with my MD.

[Oscarman]

Great discussion - thanks for this Connie....

I'm keeping my plants off drugs!

Originally Posted by Connie Star

The basics of "vehicles" in medications:
Ointment is petroleum based
Cream is water miscible, like lanolin and all those long sounding names they include on the labels
Lotion is water based
Gel is alcohol based.
Of course there are degrees of each, from pure petroleum jelly on one end to pure water to pure alcohol (but there are different alcohols) and every imaginable combination that a drug company can patent.
So

[Doc G]

You shouldn't have leftover antibiotics! Always take the full amount prescribed. Just because someone is feeling better, doesn't mean they're cured. That is when there is a real danger of developing a resistant strain in humans.

[johnblagg]

Originally Posted by Doc G

You shouldn't have leftover antibiotics! Always take the full amount prescribed. Just because someone is feeling better, doesn't mean they're cured. That is when there is a real danger of developing a resistant strain in humans.

You can buy antibiotics at the feed stores for argicultural use.I was not talking about using prescription human drugs actually, except the antibiotics you get in a cream or lotion ect for extermal use.

You should indeed always use the full course you get for youself ...