Variation on Sphag & Bag-- attempt to save a phal

[Pilot]

Hi all--

I have a phal "Ember"-- smells like heaven, but has no (well, very few) roots.

I got the plant about two months ago and for whatever reason the roots did not like the treatment they received. So only a few non-rotted roots remain.

So I google sphag and bag and found various instructions on the net but ended up following Ray's advice on how to attempt to save this phal.

I wish I had photos but at the moment I do not. However, because the plant is so large-- I have no bag large enough to fit it without the leaves touching the plastic, which I figure would not be healthy for the leave's tissue. So I set out in an attempt to figure out how to keep the humidity high, the plant warm and in a container that wouldn't hurt the plant with standing water or plastic damage.

Alas, enters a clear storage tub. I have no idea if it'll work but it is the only thing I have available that I feel would help this plant.

So I cut off all the damaged roots and the spike, soaked the remaining stubs and the base of the plant in a Superthrive mix for an hour, then sprayed down with physan 20 to kill off any bad things. I then placed it and secured it on top of an s/h pot with hydroton.

I then put a germination mat on the up-turned tub's lid, placed the plant on top of the mat along with a container full of water and sphag (my aim was to increase surface area, thereby increasing humidity). then I put the clear tub over top the entire assembly. Plugged in the mat and walked away.

Later I came back and put a high low therm inside and found that the box gets up to about 92°F in the day and about 85°F at night and the sides of the tub are dripping wet all the time-- yet the plant itself -- specifically the crown -- remain dry.

So that is my variation on sphag and bag and I would like some input/feedback on whether the conditions have been satisfied to attempt to get this phal to grow new roots?

I should also mention that this set up is on a grow shelf with 6 T12 bulbs on for roughly 12 hours a day.

Do you think it is too humid, considering it "rains" inside the tub? What about heat? Is 92 too hot or is it ok for this type of phal, which if I'm not mistaken, enjoys hotter weather.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

[RosieC]

It sounds an interesting variation, I had the same problem with a plant being too large for sphag-n-bag and my own variation did not work very well (a tented bag over the pot).

If you have SOME roots left I would almost be tempted to say to try just potting it up and water with luke warm water and perhaps give it some bottom heat. That's what finally worked for mine.

92F sounds very hot to me, but I'm not an expert on what this Phal likes. I think humidity is not a problem provided you don't have water sitting in the crown and you don't get mold growth. One of my problems with my own variation on Sphag-n-bag was that I got mold growth.

[Undergrounder]

Yeah i think as RosieC says the only thing that could really go wrong is mold growth... I would leave the top a little more open to stop the condensation forming... I do think you'll get mold if you've been keeping it shut.

But it's a great idea, thanks for sharing! I wonder if you could stick a fan in there and keep it closed, then put the fan on a timer for 15 mins every couple hours... that might work too.

[V_coerulea]

I think the clear storage tub is the only way to go. I don't get 92 deg but I put mine under a table in the gh. I use a good dose of Physan and don't get any mold problem. As a matter of fact, I add some (1-2 tsp/gal) to the sugar/superthrive pre-soak. It helps esp in cases where an infection may have become systemic. Then coat with cinnamon or StopRot from Plant Hormones Canada Products. I use their keiki root and swear by it. Of course, the storage tub is a good incubator for all sorts of keikis and sprouting canes of dendrobs, phaius and thunia. You can end up with too many plants this way, if that's a problem. Plants can be placed in pots with or w/o medium or just layed on some sphagnum (also pre-soaked in Physan) like I do with the canes. Overall, I think the modification is the only way to go, unless you just have 1 plant to treat.

[Ray]

I sometimes use an old aquarium as my "humidity chamber". Same concept - keep the RH% high around the plant to keep it "comfy".

[Pilot]

Originally Posted by Ray

I sometimes use an old aquarium as my "humidity chamber". Same concept - keep the RH% high around the plant to keep it "comfy".

Ray-- was just checking the set up and the air inside the box is warm and very humid. I can't imagine anything feeling "dry" in there but the hydroton has gone dry around the top and the few measly roots the plant has. Would be be appropriate to mist or wet the top of the pot now and then to keep the remaining roots from going dry?

I'm also a little concerned about mold-- would physan be a good deterrent to this?

[WhiteRabbit]

Originally Posted by Ray

I sometimes use an old aquarium as my "humidity chamber". Same concept - keep the RH% high around the plant to keep it "comfy".

I too have used a small fish tank - put a layer of moist peat on the bottom - a layer of pebbles over that. Left the top of the tank slightly askew for more air. Worked great on a couple Oncidium types - not so great for an Aerangis which kept getting mold.

Last summer I mounted a couple of rootless Phals in an attempt to save them. Both started new roots very quickly. Unfortunately both are still limping along tho - might just be too dry here for Phals to thrive on mounts, idk ...

[Izzie]

Originally Posted by WhiteRabbit

I too have used a small fish tank - put a layer of moist peat on the bottom - a layer of pebbles over that. Left the top of the tank slightly askew for more air. Worked great on a couple Oncidium types - not so great for an Aerangis which kept getting mold.

Last summer I mounted a couple of rootless Phals in an attempt to save them. Both started new roots very quickly. Unfortunately both are still limping along tho - might just be too dry here for Phals to thrive on mounts, idk ...

Wish I could save my rootless C. intermedia with mounting. Would probably hate it here though.

[WhiteRabbit]

Originally Posted by Izzie

Wish I could save my rootless C. intermedia with mounting. Would probably hate it here though.

Well Catts do like to be a bit dry I think. My two little mounted Phals are still alive, just don't seem to be thriving - tho there may be other issues involved. One is a violacea, which probably wasn't the best choice for my climate - even in summer - the overnight low temps can be in the 50s - and in winter I keep my house cool, so that may have something to do with it - idk. Both only seem to grow a few months out of the year. Maybe too cool for them

[Pilot]

Ok here they are-- the pics of my Phal Ember...



And here are the roots. They're really close to the reservoir but they're already water roots so they shouldn't skip a beat. You'll also notice I kept the moss around the plant. Whatever it takes to ease a fragile phal into its new home.



BTW.... I have been planting my phals on the side of their pots and letting them sort of fall over...over top the medium...they want to do that anyway so I figure I'll give them more room to do it. And besides...it helps me not get water in their crowns.