cymbidium breaking off the shoots

[Roberta]

Myself, I like my orchids to grow big and husky, if they want to run wild that's great, I just end up with some to share. But then, I do that with Neofinetia falcata too... mine certainly don't have the fukiran refinement. Different aesthetic approach. So maybe another proverb is in order... Latin... "De gustibus non disputandum est"

[plantxart]

Thank you for the explanation. I knew there is more to it than just aesthetics. I’m concerned about the wounds more susceptible to bacteria or fungus but I’m sure there’s a right way to do it

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by plantxart

Thank you for the explanation. I knew there is more to it than just aesthetics. I’m concerned about the wounds more susceptible to bacteria or fungus but I’m sure there’s a right way to do it

Also, I don't know how applicable this approach is to other orchid types... the example is for the Asian (Chinese-type) Cymbidiums that are, in themselves, a Japanese art form.

[plantxart]

So far, I’ve only seen it done to standard cymbidium hybrids. Perhaps they are much more vigorous than the traditional oriental type.

[Cach26]

Hi all, yesterday I was reading about how to use Molcoat on Cymbidums, and I found the answer to this thread posted in Mukoyama Orchids

https://mukoyama.jp/products/cymbidium/

""Autumn bud oyster
When the shoots left in the spring become full, flower buds will appear.
At this time, leaf buds may appear along with the flower buds. If these leaf buds are left as they are, the flower buds that are waiting below may not grow, so all the leaf buds that appear in the fall are removed.""
DeepL Translated

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by Cach26

Hi all, yesterday I was reading about how to use Molcoat on Cymbidums, and I found the answer to this thread posted in Mukoyama Orchids

Cymbidium | シンビジウム | Products｜製品紹介 | Mukoyama Orchids Co.,Ltd.

""Autumn bud oyster
When the shoots left in the spring become full, flower buds will appear.
At this time, leaf buds may appear along with the flower buds. If these leaf buds are left as they are, the flower buds that are waiting below may not grow, so all the leaf buds that appear in the fall are removed.""
DeepL Translated

I have been growing Cymbidiums for nearly 30 years (they were my very first orchids) , and have never seen leaves (other than small sheaths) on the flower spikes. If you ever see them post a photo and get advice.

Grow them first, then you can get down into the weeds if you run into an issue. If you have the right conditions (which may vary depending on the parentage of the plant) Cyms are just about the most straightforward orchid you can grow. I use bit of a top dressing of a generic time-release fertilizer (Osmocote, Nutricote, Dynamite where I live, whatever you can get at a garden store or big-box store will be fine) as a little extra boost, but fancy imported fertilizer? NOT. Don't overthink! Try actually growing the plants then you can refine after you have some experience under your belt to show you what is, and what is not, relevant.

Before you worry about "growing to perfection" try getting some to actually grow. survive, and thrive (and bloom) first. Fertilizer in general is probably about the last 20%, Fine tuning fertilizer strategy is maybe the final 1%. Won't make any difference at all if you don't get the other 80% of cultural factors right FIRST.

Pretty much anybody can GROW a Cymbidium - they are very forgiving. Blooming them is another story - THAT will tell you whether you have the conditions right, If it grows and doesn't bloom, there are things you can do to make adjustments. Fertilizer will make zero difference, other factors are much more important. If you are at fairly high elevation (above 1500 m or so) you have the temperature variation that will work for essentially all Cymbidiums. If you are in a more tropical area, you will need to find hybrids that have some of the tropical species in their ancestry or you will just grow leaves (attractive, but most people want flowers)

[Jeff214]

Totally agree with Roberta

I would recommend standard care, the fundamentals, before the masters course.

Originally Posted by Cach26

""Autumn bud oyster...""
DeepL Translated

I did find the DeepL translation pretty humorous.

I assume that's from "mehkaki" the term used for the removal ("kaki") of new growths ("meh"). One homonym of "kaki" is oyster...

I guess DeepL doesn't consider context. For a language filled with homonyms (like Japanese), it must be challenging to make a translation algorithm!

Originally Posted by Roberta

I have been growing Cymbidiums for nearly 30 years (they were my very first orchids) , and have never seen leaves (other than small sheaths) on the flower spikes. If you ever see them post a photo and get advice.

This is a case of a bad translation (please be careful when you post un-verified translations... you might spread false info).

They mean new growth and flower spike. The Japanese word "meh" doesn't really translate to "bud" in English (as all the bad internet refs online seems to say). It means more a burgeoning new growth. It can refer to a dormant eye, a shoot, a spike, a new growth from a seed. It doesn't apply to a flower bud.

Anyway... that's probably more info than anyone wanted to know!

[alecStewart1]

You could ask around with some of the Japanese or Chinese vendors. From what I've looked around at and asked about, this is all I can tell you (and it could be wrong):

For China, the aesthetic for Cymbidiums is more...philosophical.

If you watch this video, you'll get some level of understanding.

"An Introduction to East Asian Cymbidiums" - Invidious

Basically, Cymbidiums in China are like a representation of spring. The flower come out of the ground, and "burst" open with new life. The flowers also (generally) stay under the leaves, which represents something but I'm not sure what.

For the Japanese the spring component is the same, the aesthetics are slightly different. The Japanese like smaller, clumped together, round things. They also like variegation more than the Chinese, or at least that seems to be the case from seeing the Chinese and Japanese varieties of Cymbidiums out there from US and Asian vendors. There are some nice variegated Chinese forms of Cymbidium sinense that are great looking, but there's overwhelmingly more variegated varieties of the big 3 East Asian Cymbidiums from Japanese growers than Chinese. There's also far more colored flower varieties of Cym. goeringii from Japanese and Koreans than the Chinese.

For the Japanese, it doesn't seem to be as a philosophical thing compared to the Chinese. It's more about overall aesthetic.

I don't know about cutting off new growths, but if you look at bonsai and Neofinetia falcata, the Japanese will "train" their plants to grow a certain way. For bonsai, this is obvious and required to grow bonsai. For Neo. falcata, you'll see some people stick little rods in their moss mounds to keep the plant from making keikis on the sides of mounds or jutting out on the sides too much.

I say this because if you look at a lot of pictures from plants in Japan in the the nice painted clay pots (which here in the US will go for well over 100 USD), you'll see that they generally are in a nice clump of multiple plants on the top of the moss mound. This looks especially nice when they're variegated and/or are a bean-leaf variety. Not everyone does this though, as Neos are very different from growing bonsai. A lot of people just let Neos do whatever they want, and they still look good.

Again, this is all observation. For what you mentioned about Cymbidiums, I have no idea.

[Roberta]

Back to topic... Cymbidiums not Neos

[alecStewart1]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Back to topic... Cymbidiums not Neos

Yea, sorry. I was just commenting on what plantxart might be talking about originally, using Neos and bonsais as examples.

I don't really know if many growers actually do any kind of cutting for Cymbidiums (outside of cuttings for flowers), and I don't see why they would.

Orchids are not trees or shrubbery, you can't clip freely to try and shape the plant the way you want.

If growers do in fact do this, then there has be a very meticulous way of doing so to prevent more harm coming to the plant.

Frankly, I wouldn't bother. Culture first before doing some kind of weird...shaping of the plant.