Deflasking advice

[xFl]

Hi everyone! Recently bought a flask of Phal. Mini Mark 'Holm', first time deflasking.

I soaked them in a mild bleach and soap solution, then rinsed with clear water - I'm wondering if this was mold growing on the roots in the flask?

I also potted them up in my regular phal bark mix, with just a bit more sphag that I would use for my mature plants - is this okay?

Keeping them in a makeshift enclosure - not airtight but temperature is around 21-25c, humidity around 70%

Any advice and thoughts would be appreciated!

[tmoney]

hey there! well, im sure more knowledgable folks will come along soon, but i would guess it is not mold. if it was mold it would have taken over the nutrient media.

never heard of the bleach treatment! but the last pic in the pot looks good! also, for ours we just usually take a plastic grocery bag and place it loosely over the pot. leave it for a month or so, but every couple days try to take the bag off and get fresh air exchange in there....it certainly is not air tight in our little tents.

good luck with the seedlings! if our minimark ever reblooms it will be a freaking miracle....

[Fairorchids]

Why on earth did you use bleach & soap? In the flask they are in a sterile environment, so all you should have done was rinse off most of the agar with clean water.

You can download my guidelines on how to treat deflasked seedlings here:
Fair Orchids
select: FO.Growing Orchid Seedlings from Flask.rev 2

[Paphman910]

Bleach and soap is going to cause problems to the seedlings as it will cause burns to the leaf and roots. Bleach is really hard to wash off your hands just image it on the leaf and roots!

[xFl]

Yikes, I wish I had known this! I was following the directions from a youtube channel I have followed for a long time, "Wayne's Weird World", and in his deflasking video for dendrobiums, he uses three baths of diluted bleach to wash the agar off, and then a tub of clear water to rinse at the end.

I used a mild ratio of 1/2 tsp in 5 gallons of water, and then a pretty thorough rinse in clean water and a rinse under the sink, since I was also kind of weary of the bleach.

I have never deflasked, so maybe I was too heavy handed in trying to prevent fungal or mold infections on the seedlings. I was also kind of worried about what the white fuzz was on the roots, they were rapidly growing even in the flask during the few days I had it.

I'll keep you all posted on how the seedlings do, hopefully they survive the bleach....

---------- Post added at 09:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

Why on earth did you use bleach & soap? In the flask they are in a sterile environment, so all you should have done was rinse off most of the agar with clean water.

You can download my guidelines on how to treat deflasked seedlings here:
Fair Orchids
select: FO.Growing Orchid Seedlings from Flask.rev 2

Thank you! I'll give it a read today.

---------- Post added at 09:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 AM ----------

Originally Posted by tmoney

hey there! well, im sure more knowledgable folks will come along soon, but i would guess it is not mold. if it was mold it would have taken over the nutrient media.

never heard of the bleach treatment! but the last pic in the pot looks good! also, for ours we just usually take a plastic grocery bag and place it loosely over the pot. leave it for a month or so, but every couple days try to take the bag off and get fresh air exchange in there....it certainly is not air tight in our little tents.

good luck with the seedlings! if our minimark ever reblooms it will be a freaking miracle....

Thank you! Haha never mind a bloom for me, if these little guys survive and grow a single new root I will be over the moon.

[Gardening in WM]

1/2 tsp in 5 gallons of water should be fine.

I have seen growers use 100 x more bleach with no ill effects but I am also weary of using bleach on my plants.

The roots are looking very healthy. The leaves have got some white mold on them but mold is not detrimental to orchids. Just wipe it off with some toilet paper.

If you know how to grow phals you should be fine, these are the healthiest looking flasklings I have seen, certainly healthier than what I have had to work with before.

Keep them covered to maintain high humidity. Air them out daily if you can. Once you see the roots growing a bit they will be getting used to the new environment. They really are in good condition and I doubt the bleach did much harm. Just never let them dry out and keep them airy, don't pack the moss, keep it loose. They will grow slow to start with. As long as you don't see any wrinkling, yellowing or decline you are doing well even if they will be slow going.

[estación seca]

In the flask the white hairs were root hairs. It was sterile in there before you opened the flask; no mold.

[Ray]

I have never understood the practice of disinfecting ex-flask seedlings. As has been stated, they have been in a sterile environment all along, and such treatments do nothing to provide any protection going forward. If that’s what you’re after, use a good probiotic, instead.

[Fairorchids]

Originally Posted by Ray

I have never understood the practice of disinfecting ex-flask seedlings. As has been stated, they have been in a sterile environment all along, and such treatments do nothing to provide any protection going forward. If that’s what you’re after, use a good probiotic, instead.

Amen

[MateoinLosAngeles]

This sounds as outlandish as advising to dunk a baby in bleach after birth.

The only reason I can think of for this myth to have spawned is the assumption that bleaching the plant might offer any protection against aggressive pathogens – protection that would dissipate after the bleach dries and kill any beneficial bacteria. Maybe at some point, commercial growers tried this out to prevent viral transmission between plants. But, who knows, it showcases people's lack of general understanding of microbes.

There's something to be said about using a good probiotic. Going back to the baby analogy, evidence suggests that children exposed to germs grow more robust immune systems. In fact, some studies point to children who grow up on farms or have pets being less likely to experience immune-related illnesses. The hygiene hypothesis: How being too clean might be making us sick - Vox

Not only that, but if you were born before 1990 in a foreign country (and your parents weren't knuckleheads), you might've received the BCG vaccine a few weeks after being born. Some studies suggest the vaccine boosts innate immune mechanisms (trained immunity) for an undefined period of time – in addition to accomplish its intended protection against TB.

Bacterial and fungal inoculation wouldn't necessarily apply to the concept of trained immunity, since inoculation aims to foster a symbiotic relationship and not to train the plant's immune system. However, if the colony is maintained and the symbiosis successful, who's to say that couldn't potentially help the long-term health of these seedlings.

I currently alternate between Quantum Total (Ray, above, sells it) and Inocucor Garden Solution. Inocucor is hard to find nowadays, but a product called BioAG from SCD Probiotics seems to have a very similar composition. A product that I haven't tried yet but that retails at a not-terrible price and seems to include a good amount of mycorrhizae is Plant Probiotics from Micra Culture. (This is all assuming labels tell you anything, which they mostly don't).

All of the above include Bacillus subtilis which antagonizes and can kill several strains of Erwinia. Quantum and the Micra Culture products also contain Bacillus amyloliquefaciens, which is sold and used as a "bio" fungicide to fight several pathogens. Many of the additional strains are nitogen fixing bacteria that help the plant process nutrients in exchange for carbon. I'm sure your newly deflasked orchids would be in good company with either of the above.

I'm not deflasking orchids, but every plant I propagate is sprayed with a solution containing Quantum and Kelpak and I can't complain.