Cinnamon as an orchid fungicide - Science or Nonsense

[Roberta]

I use it on cut areas. Don't know if it really does any good, does no harm, smells good at least. My situation is not much of a test, I am in a fairly dry climate and don't particularly have fungal issues anyway.

[SADE2020]

Originally Posted by isurus79

What an interesting thread! I used to use cinnamon on my orchid cuts, but now I just the plant stay dry for a day or two and they seem to heal on their own. No need for treatment of any type in my conditions.

Every time I try to don’t do anything I loose a bulb or even the entire plant, the humidity level must matters a lot too.. as you and Roberta states.

[K-Sci]

Originally Posted by Ray

Why would you do that when many infections are bacterial? That probably wouldn’t pass “peer review.”

Half a loaf is better than none.

I think cinnamon bark powder is primarily a desiccant (and far better than sawdust),

Cinnamon is sawdust. How do you know that very fine cedar, redwood, or cypress sawdust are not equally desiccating? Silica gel would probably be much better.

When extracted in water or alcohol, cinnamaldehyde is present, which is well-established as a mild bactericide and fungicide.

I've never heard anyone advise people to use cinnamon essential oils. Consider also that cedar, redwood, cypress sawdust also have bactericidal and fungicidal properties.

I used a q-tip to “paint” the nail and cuticle with cinnamon leaf oil, covering with a bandaid, and within 6 weeks the infection was gone. It takes about a year for the damaged nail to be replaced, but there was a sharp delineation between the new-, and damaged tissue. That dermatologist now recommends it routinely.

Nice. You were thinking and questioning. A lot of the antibiotics doctors prescribe are known to be ineffective much of the time. In recent testing 50% of target bacterial infections were resistant to amoxicillin, 33% were resistant to co-trimoxazole and 25% were resistant to trimethoprim. Take a baby with an ear infection to the doctor and most of the time they'll send you on your way with a prescription for amoxicillin.

-Keith

---------- Post added at 07:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:32 PM ----------

Originally Posted by SADE2020

Every time I try to don’t do anything I loose a bulb or even the entire plant, the humidity level must matters a lot to.. as you and Roberta states.

Humidity levels, but also air movement.
-Keith

---------- Post added at 08:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 PM ----------

Originally Posted by SADE2020

For strange stains or as a spot treatment, I make a paste with Vaseline, cinnamon, algae extract and a drop of MANDIPROPAMID (mandelic acid). (recipe from a biologist friend).

This works extremely well for me, so I don't even question anything else.

Doing a couple searches, it seems that mandipropamid is one of the active ingredients in the commercial fungicide Revus, which I can only find sold by the gallon for some $500us. How did you get started using this one?



-Keith

[SADE2020]

Originally Posted by K-Sci

[/COLOR]
Doing a couple searches, it seems that mandipropamid is one of the active ingredients in the commercial fungicide Revus, which I can only find sold by the gallon for some $500us. How did you get started using this one?

-Keith

Hi KEITH

the product I use is this one
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...h9u0zm6hIBJDW9

I'll try to find out how to get it in USA, here is easy and sheep

[jldriessnack]

So, I don't know of any studies, but know I have stopped bulb and leaf rot multiple times with cinnamon application. Now whether that is simply due to the desiccating properties or not, I am not sure, but I have never been able to stop rot without using cinnamon packing. Also, I mean, it does make sense. Tree barks often have antifungal properties and that is essentially where cinnamon comes from.

[K-Sci]

Originally Posted by jldriessnack

So, I don't know of any studies, but know I have stopped bulb and leaf rot multiple times with cinnamon application. Now whether that is simply due to the desiccating properties or not, I am not sure, but I have never been able to stop rot without using cinnamon packing. Also, I mean, it does make sense. Tree barks often have antifungal properties and that is essentially where cinnamon comes from.

Interesting testimony, but even if it doesn't work, it smells good. Win-win.

-Keith

[Shadeflower]

I posted a picture of a leaf rot a while ago. That hasn't spread at all. I didn't use anything to treat it so I also believe cinnamon would work just as well.

On a different plant I had some leaf spots appear on leaves and they kept appearing, I ended up snipping them all away and that stopped it. Was strange, only appeared on that plant and I can never definitively point out what helped but cutting it away is the safest when it spreads.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Now knowing why you're asking the original question to begin with gives people here context as to the importance of this subject..

If rots are occurring on your Cattleya dowiana and related hybrids around the rhizomes regularly, raise the rhizomes above the potting media (easiest, most immediate solution if those rhizomes are getting buried), provide more air circulation (might be a bit challenging depending on what your grow area is like, but one of the easiest solutions is to use an airier potting media), and water a bit less (100% within your control). Using a clear plastic pot could also help with the speed of the potting media drying out and also allows the roots to photosynthesize. Another option would be to use either the black or clear net pots instead of the traditional pots (assuming you are growing them in pots). If you are concerned about the potting media falling out of the holes of the net pots, you can go to your local home improvement store and buy yourself a roll of netting used for screen doors and cut to size to line the net pots.

Depending on what the low end temperatures of your grow area are like, you may have to raise the temperature too.

From what I understand, this particular species has a dormancy period. It might also be helpful to observe that.

Hopefully you won't need to deal with having to use cinnamon as a preventative fungicide on such a regular basis after trying to change your growing environment and/or habits.

But to answer your original question...

Cinnamon powder is not that effective for use as a fungicide, in terms of use for orchid growing. It is not a systemic type of fungicide, it treats the local area it is applied to. It is far better at being a desiccant (as was mentioned earlier). I generally also don't recommend it's use because it has the potential to get to places you don't want them to land and cause potential problems with desiccation (like the tender parts of roots). There might be techniques to prevent the powder from getting everywhere, but to me, it seems quite bothersome.

The cinnamon oils might be a different story, but if the problem can be solved via means of changing the way you grow your plants, why not just do that instead?

[YetAnotherOrchidNut]

Originally Posted by K-Sci

The mainstream media, political parties, health food "experts' and and horticulture fanatics, are prone to starting and perpetuating fiction calling it science. Therefore, this question: Does anyone know of peer reviewed research where cinnamon was demonstrated to be effective as a plant fungicide?

-Keith

Science is an expensive thing to do and to do right. Experiments require people to ask very specific questions and then spend a lot of time and energy investigating the answers. Thus there generally has to be an economic incentive to do such science. Most botany departments in universities are supported by donations, government research grants, and/or by the industrial sector interested in the field.

What this means is that there are many questions that really haven't received the required attention to say much beyond very limited things.

On the other hand "folk remedies" like using Cinnamon for treating plants develops over centuries, and often has foundation. For centuries people used Willow Bark Tea, and more importantly Meadowsweet Tea (Filipendula ulmaria) to address head-aches, did it work? Maybe a bit. Was there foundation to the folk knowledge? Sure was, it is what Bayer used to synthesize Aspirin.

So I would argue that this is a classic case of "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". Eg, that there aren't scientific studies of the efficacy of Cinnamon bark is as likely to be that there is no economic basis to investigate it as it is that its an unfounded myth. Cinnamon is an expensive and scarce resource (it is the Bark of a tree that does not grow in many places), so it may just be that the botany industry doesn't see it a viable place to invest their research dollars.

I would say that in the absence of contraindications you should give some credence to folk knowledge like this. At worst it wont hurt, and best it has foundation and will do good. Use your brain.

BTW, I just wanted to say that personally I don't feel it's appropriate to bring your political views to a forum about orchids. As long as we are all here to talk about what we love, Orchids, then we should be able to get along. If you tag your posts with political stuff then this place stops being a safe place where we all talk about something we have in common and starts being a place where we start talking about other things that are divisive and likely not friendly. Keep it to orchids and we can all get along.

Thanks.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by YetAnotherOrchidNut

"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

I like that!