Water with plain water first before fertilizing?

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by K-Sci

I think it is likely that the orchids do just as well with a wide variation in fertilizer compositions, but that's just my best guess, not what I would call a truth.

I think your best guess is the truth.

[Shadeflower]

Originally Posted by isurus79

Watering first is a relict of the past that is disappearing, much like bloom boosters.[COLOR="Silver"]

If you say so stephen, clearly you don't listen to your fellow growers.

Otherwise you would know how much I believe in bloom boosters. Saying bloom boosters are a relic of the past is pretty much like saying kelmax is a relic of the past.

Did you realize that the fertilized version of kelpmax has a formulation of 3-9-8?

Wait wait hold on a minute. The people that make kelpmax are using an outdated relic of a formula? Yes because just like we have been breathing air for decades, plants have been absorbing potassium and phosphorous. potassium and phosphorous are what most root booster products are made of hence kelpmax too!

So are root boosters all a sham? No they are the same as bloom boosters.
And what is contained in 99% of all fertilizers.

So that statement is just really misleading, if you meant excessive use of bloom boosters are outdated belief, ie are even detrimental to use in excess, then I completely agree but to dismiss bloom boosters entirely is not right either.
You would know this if you followed what others were reporting about their growing methods or what whenever someone like me reports something or MOG then it is automatically dismissed as hogwash? How will you learn to distinguish between relics of the past that you started with but turn out to be bad practices if you don't keep up with latest practices?

Sure you can not believe what others do and only base your knowledge on your own experience but what is the point of participating in a forum then

I have seen huge improvements in some people growing flasks (seedlings) and the only thing responsible is what these growers add to their growing media. Since the jar is sealed for months at a time with no other changes but what some growers are adding compared to other growers is proving to make differences. It's worth finding out why, the healthier the orchid seedlings, the healthier the resulting plants.

[Clawhammer]

I think he is saying that orchids need very little phos and it is unnecessary to use a high phos fert as it will have no positive effect on the bloom (for orchids). That is why the research team at MSU designed their optimized orchid fert mix as a 13-3-15. That has also generally been my experience in my environment too. My blooms improved when I went from using a bloom booster to a constant weak feeding program in my indoor environment.

I look at ferts as potential bottlenecks and my goal is remove bottlenecks. More does not always equal better as orchids are adapted to need only minute quantities of non-nitrogen nutrients to grow vigorously. The right amount of any fert is dictated by the environment and the plant's genetics.

I think too much importance is placed on the fertilizer question. We aren't growing produce here, we are growing generally very slow growing plants that are adapted to live in a nutrient scarce environment.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by Shadeflower

If you say so stephen, clearly you don't listen to your fellow growers.

Otherwise you would know how much I believe in bloom boosters. Saying bloom boosters are a relic of the past is pretty much like saying kelmax is a relic of the past.

Did you realize that the fertilized version of kelpmax has a formulation of 3-9-8?

Wait wait hold on a minute. The people that make kelpmax are using an outdated relic of a formula? Yes because just like we have been breathing air for decades, plants have been absorbing potassium and phosphorous. potassium and phosphorous are what most root booster products are made of hence kelpmax too!

So are root boosters all a sham? No they are the same as bloom boosters.
And what is contained in 99% of all fertilizers.

So that statement is just really misleading, if you meant excessive use of bloom boosters are outdated belief, ie are even detrimental to use in excess, then I completely agree but to dismiss bloom boosters entirely is not right either.
You would know this if you followed what others were reporting about their growing methods or what whenever someone like me reports something or MOG then it is automatically dismissed as hogwash? How will you learn to distinguish between relics of the past that you started with but turn out to be bad practices if you don't keep up with latest practices?

Sure you can not believe what others do and only base your knowledge on your own experience but what is the point of participating in a forum then

I have seen huge improvements in some people growing flasks (seedlings) and the only thing responsible is what these growers add to their growing media. Since the jar is sealed for months at a time with no other changes but what some growers are adding compared to other growers is proving to make differences. It's worth finding out why, the healthier the orchid seedlings, the healthier the resulting plants.

I've never heard of anyone considering kelmax as bloom booster, so your entire premise is wrong, as usual. Baseless attacks like this are one of the reasons I don't take any stock in what you report. For some reason, every single one of your posts is about yourself. You, you, you. Everything is about you.

Dear Mods - How many threads need to be shut down because of Shadeflower's unrelenting hostility and misinformation before you boot him??? Seriously?? This is getting ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Clawhammer

I think he is saying that orchids need very little phos and it is unnecessary to use a high phos fert as it will have no positive effect on the bloom (for orchids). That has generally been my experience in my environment too. My blooms improved when I went from using a bloom booster to a constant weak feeding program in my indoor environment.

I look at ferts as potential bottlenecks and my goal is remove bottlenecks. More does not always equal better as orchids are adapted to need only minute quantities of non-nitrogen nutrients to grow vigorously. The right amount of any fert is dictated by the environment and the plant's genetics.

I think too much importance is placed on the fertilizer question. We aren't growing produce here, we are growing generally very slow growing plants that are adapted to live in a nutrient scarce environment.

Exactly.

[Ray]

A couple of comments.

First, the MSU RO fertilizer is anything but "optimized". The experimenters made some speculative assessments based upon known plant nutritional needs and came up with a formula. The PhD that formulated it has told me directly that "We came up with a formula. We tried it, and it worked." No optimization work was conducted

Based upon what I have studied and read, one might conclude K-Lite is more "optimized", but I doubt that, too. Guess what? We tried it, and it works.

Stephen - concerning your query about blocking individuals, be aware that the subject individual has joined the Orchid Board several times under several different user names. His IP address was blocked each time, but he uses IP spoofing to get a "new" IP identity and joins again. In a way, I feel sorry for anyone with such a mental complex.

[Clawhammer]

Originally Posted by Ray

A couple of comments.

First, the MSU RO fertilizer is anything but "optimized". The experimenters made some speculative assessments based upon known plant nutritional needs and came up with a formula. The PhD that formulated it has told me directly that "We came up with a formula. We tried it, and it worked." No optimization work was conducted

Based upon what I have studied and read, one might conclude K-Lite is more "optimized", but I doubt that, too. Guess what? We tried it, and it works.

Stephen - concerning your query about blocking individuals, be aware that the subject individual has joined the Orchid Board several times under several different user names. His IP address was blocked each time, but he uses IP spoofing to get a "new" IP identity and joins again. In a way, I feel sorry for anyone with such a mental complex.

The point was low phos. ...

[K-Sci]

Originally Posted by Roberta

...
Mother Nature knows best!

Setting aside the question about rates, frequency and dilution, you've hit on one of my pet peeves. Natural conditions are rarely ideal. Mother Nature gives plants what they needed to survive and reproduce. For every plant that survives to reproduce in the natural environment, vastly more die before getting there. Many species are barely surviving even in their pristine natural environment. Billions went extinct because Mother Nature didn't meet even their basic needs.

We cultivate and fertilize lawns, gardens, and crops giving them comparatively huge amounts of nutrients because we need them to grow a lot better than they do nature.

-Keith

[Clawhammer]

Originally Posted by K-Sci

Setting aside the question about rates, frequency and dilution, you've hit on one of my pet peeves. Natural conditions are rarely ideal. Mother Nature gives plants found in nature what they needed to survive and reproduce. For every plant that survives to reproduce in the natural environment, vastly more die before getting there. Many species are barely surviving even in their pristine natural environment. Billions went extinct because Mother Nature didn't meet even their basic needs.

We cultivate and fertilize lawns, gardens, and crops giving them comparatively huge amounts of nutrients because we need them to grow a lot better than than they do nature.

-Keith

The conditions where ever that plant evolved, when it evolved, were ideal because the plant evolved to that environment. Not all places orchids grow naturally are the exact same as the envirmonet they evolved in due to inevitable change over time (climate, human intervention).

We have the ability to create an artificial environment where we can balance the plant's needs and achieve optimal growth, but that rarely means providing an over-abundance, its more about providing the optimal balance.

[K-Sci]

Originally Posted by Clawhammer

The point was low phos. Nice sales pitch tho...

I've heard that your orchid growing results are superb. What fertilizer, dilutions, and schedule do you use?
-Keith

[Clawhammer]

Originally Posted by K-Sci

I've heard that your orchid growing results are superb. What fertilizer, dilutions, and schedule do you use?
-Keith

Thanks Keith.

I use a Dramm siphon fert injector and target 25ppm nitrogen (credit to Ray for this guidance), which I test using fish tank nitrogen test kit.

I maintain this all year and I switch between different ferts types/brands in the concentration when the reservoir runs dry. My tap water is very pure so I use ferts that add CA (MSU, K-Lite, 20-20-20 + CalMag).

From December thru Feb I fill the fert concentrate reservoir with plain water.