Purple leaves: Cold damage, Insect stress, too much light, magnesium or phosphorous

[thefish1337]

I think a component of the discussion that is being missed is the microbial populations in different people's orchids. Specifically the phosphate and potassium solubilizing bacteria associated with their orchids- if you lack theses functions in the microbial populations that live in and on your orchid roots then you are forced to overcompensate with increased additions of these nutrients.

Applying phosphorous as a salt and without appropriate microbial helpers means that your plant really only takes up phosphorous when it is in its ionic form in solution... the massive increase in concentration that occurs as evaporation and dry down cycles happen causes the phosphorous to be complexed with cationic species which become much harder for your orchid to take up. In a natural system there is a balance between phosphorous immobilization and mineralization/solubilization that dictates the availability of ionic phosphorous. Increasing phosphorous fertilizer without the appropriate microbiology just drives your orchid and media towards immobilization. Additionally, the organic forms of phosphorous that are contained in micro life are an important source of phosphorous as these organisms growth and death releases these organic forms which are less likely to form insoluble complexes. In systems with low organic matter (like most orchid mixes) the deleterious effects of excess salts on microbial populations are much more pronounced. If you combine this with the over use of synthetic pesticides which are harmful to nutrient cycling organisms and it becomes no surprise to me that people start compensating with higher feed rates. There is nothing wrong with this... other than you lose a lot of resilience and efficiency in your growing system.

You can meticulously balance nutrient ratios, or you can use microbes and be lazy but that's just my $0.02. I'd rather use less salts and preserve and promote the functional organisms I've inoculated into my orchids.

[K-Sci]

Originally Posted by thefish1337

You can meticulously balance nutrient ratios, or you can use microbes and be lazy but that's just my $0.02. I'd rather use less salts and preserve and promote the functional organisms I've inoculated into my orchids.

How are you doing this?

-Keith

[thefish1337]

Originally Posted by K-Sci

How are you doing this?

-Keith

There are a number of plant inoculants I have tested, all work pretty well, some better than others. Bacillus subtilis, bacillus amyloliquifasciens, bacillus licheniformis and bacillus pumilus are primarily used in these products. They promote phosphate solubilization through many mechanisms. Ultimately the efficacy of these products comes down to the specific strains of bacteria they use: Bacillus subtilis from product a may not do the same things as Bacillus subtilis in product b. You may find that one product works better in your conditions and growing environment.

1. Tribus Original - 3 species consortium of Bacillus in high concentrations ...200x more concentrated than Quantum Total. I have tested this product for only 6 months but I have seen great results with all my houseplants and orchids.

2. Inocucor - only contains Bacillus subtillis but also is a consortium of beneficial yeasts, lactobacillus and molds. I have used this product for 4 years with excellent results.

3. Quantum Total - contains more species of bacillus + photosynthetic bacteria + humic acid. I have tested this for about 2 years and it works pretty well.

[K-Sci]

Originally Posted by thefish1337

There are a number of plant inoculants I have tested, all work pretty well, some better than others...

1. Tribus Original...

2. Inocucor...

3. Quantum ...

This is interesting. I started using Quantum a couple months after reading Ray's testimony to its effectiveness on OB. Initially I thought the smell might kill me, but I quickly found that the sulfur smell doesn't linger after use and the smell of the product still in the container moderates as the hydrogen sulfide dissipates.

I started using Quantum hoping that lightening can strike twice, with Ray's KelpMax being a very effective product and the first metaphorical lightening strike. The problem I'm having assessing the effectiveness of Quantum is that I lack a means to gauge its effectiveness. What results have you seen that led you to conclude that Quantum delivers on its promise.

-Keith

[thefish1337]

Originally Posted by K-Sci

This is interesting. I started using Quantum a couple months after reading Ray's testimony to its effectiveness on OB. Initially I thought the smell might kill me, but I quickly found that the sulfur smell doesn't linger after use and the smell of the product still in the container moderates as the hydrogen sulfide dissipates.

I started using Quantum hoping that lightening can strike twice, with Ray's KelpMax being a very effective product and the first metaphorical lightening strike. The problem I'm having assessing the effectiveness of Quantum is that I lack a means to gauge its effectiveness. What results have you seen that led you to conclude that Quantum delivers on its promise.

-Keith

The most pronounced effects I've observed with quantum have been with plants growing in soil-less peat based mixes and hydroponic nutrients on my balcony. I was having calcium and pH issues with my vegetables and the product completely eliminated those issues and the plants began to grow vibrantly with no other changes.

If a microbial product is working you should notice:

1. lower nutrient requirements
2. stronger and more resilient roots
3. major suppression/elimination of bacterial and fungal rots
4. higher tolerance to humidity, watering and temperature variations

I don't want to rip on quantum because its a good starter product but its pretty under dosed compared to tribus and inocucor.

I've been getting pretty epic root growth using tribus/inocucor- and I'm growing in a lower humidity (40-50%) and lower temperature (ambient room temp in the PNW) environment than most people grow their orchids... here is my Cattleya tigrina but you can see my entire grow space is filled with a mess of healthy green root tips:

[Ray]

I am in complete agreement that microbes play a much larger role in plant health that we may realize.

To Keith’s question, I think that, for me, it’s not “what did I see” with their use on orchids, but more “what I didn’t see” - diseases of any kind. Tomatoes, herbs and figs grown in-ground were significantly bigger and more fruitful than their untreated counterparts, but that may be more related to general growth rate than the type of plant, per se.

A word about the reported contents of the probiotics. When it comes to “plant and soil amendments”, the category these products are registered under, the label does not have to reflect the full contents. It does have to show the species for which the manufacturer tests and guarantees the concentration. I cannot speak for others, but both Quantum-Total and Inocucor Garden Solution carry far more species than is reported on their labels.

For example, the Inocucor label states that it contains Bacillus subtilis and Saccharomyces cerevisiae, but the paperwork accompanying the shipment when I used to import it states the feedstock contains many others, and the PhD microbiologists that invented the product have told me there are a lot more species than they even know about.

[K-Sci]

Originally Posted by Ray

I am in complete agreement that microbes play a much larger role in plant health that we may realize.

Hmm. I was thinking that Quantum might not be worth the effort (smell), but the testimony here has me feeling like I should continue using it.


Ray, after my third or fourth use of my current bottle of Quantum I failed to tighten the top sufficiently and it lost the hydrogen sulfide that keeps it dormant. Do you think the biologically active contents die if the H2S is lost, or do they survive. I do keep it refrigerated.

-Keith

[Shadeflower]

thefish, wow now that is impressive root growth.

I agree that bacteria will play a big part in this too I'm sure. I have observed most problems in newly repotted orchids that could probably do with some good bacteria to help them settle in better.

I have concluded like has been pointed out to me that purpling can be a completely normal phenomena but at the same time it can be a sign the orchid is struggling a little.

I'm glad you guys have shed som more light on the matter for me.

Keith thank you for your invaluable observations. I hope to hear more on your trials in future.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by K-Sci

Hmm. I was thinking that Quantum might not be worth the effort (smell), but the testimony here has me feeling like I should continue using it.


Ray, after my third or fourth use of my current bottle of Quantum I failed to tighten the top sufficiently and it lost the hydrogen sulfide that keeps it dormant. Do you think the biologically active contents die if the H2S is lost, or do they survive. I do keep it refrigerated.

-Keith

The H2S is an activity suppressant. Losing it simply mens the shelf live is more likely months, rather than a year or more.

FWIW, in a few days I expect to have some Inocucor Garden Solution available, in addition to the Quantum-Total.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by Ray

FWIW, in a few days I expect to have some Inocucor Garden Solution available, in addition to the Quantum-Total.

Damn, you just shipped an order of kelpmax to me this week. Now I'll have to make another order!!