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  #1  
Old 07-17-2021, 08:44 AM
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K-Sci K-Sci is offline
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How much success have you had rooting old rootless Cattleya back-bulbs. Male
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Yes. That's my "take", anyway. Besides, both KLN and KelpMax are stimulants, and it is possible to over-stimulate a plant to death (that's how the auxin herbicide 2, 4-D works), so if you want to be safer about it, why use the one with less chance of getting the rhizome to grow?
Yes, and all the dandelions in your yard go to seed at once. Hmmm, maybe I should try a low dose of 2,4-D.(kidding)

I've seen plenty of evidence that KelpMax works (see attached n=2 experiment results), but I'm not convinced that any rooting agents actually work on orchids. I thought I'd give KLN a try. If they grow to death, I won't use both next time.

Thanks for your replies.

k-Sci
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Last edited by K-Sci; 07-17-2021 at 08:50 AM..
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  #2  
Old 07-17-2021, 09:37 AM
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How much success have you had rooting old rootless Cattleya back-bulbs. Male
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I'm not convinced that any rooting agents actually work on orchids.
I don't understand that at all.

The roles of auxins & cytokinins are well-established in all vascular plants. The fact that they may not appear to work might be attributable to the quality of the product used (water-soluble auxins are prone to rapid degradation) or the expectations of the user. (I once had an Amazon KelpMax customer request a refund because he saw no root growth within a few days of application...)

For purposes of discussion, I classify stimulants in one of three ways, "direct", "indirect", and "shortcut".

Products containing auxins and cytokinins - KLN, Superthrive and others - are direct stimulants. They artificially boost the concentration of the hormones in the plants' system, stimulating action. Overdosing can lead to flower deformation (I've done it. Fortunately, it's reversible), stunted growth, "leggy" growth (if the cytokinins are in greater concentration than the auxins), or plant death.

Mega Thrive is an “indirect stimulant”. It is a urea-based foliar treatment that contains “mega” doses of molybdenum and boron. By delivering high doses of those trace elements, the plant is stimulated into producing auxins that stimulate root growth. Anecdotally, it seems to work well, but there are some potential down-sides to it’s use: one is the possibility of killing the plant by overdosing those trace elements, another is the flower deformation/stunted plant growth thing from the boosted auxins, and a third is the possibility of killing a child or pet that may chew on the plant, as the molybdenum makes the plant itself toxic.

Some probiotics might be considered "indirect stimulants", as many bacteria species secrete indole-acetic acid, an auxin that stimulates root growth, but generally, I think it's better to simply expect them to be "protectors" more than anything else.

There are species in Quantum-Total that are nitrogen-fixing and photosynthesizing, so they produce food and fuel from right within the plant, without it having to expend its own resources to do so, so that might also be construed as a "shortcut" stimulant.

That is also where I place KelpMax, which is, without a doubt, the safest and most effective stimulant available. While it does contain some natural hormones, making it "direct", it’s level of stimulation is far greater than one would expect for the amount contained, and that has been attributed to the other plant growth regulators, vitamins, amino acids, alginates and other polysaccharides present in the kelp juice, which can be used immediately - sort-of like an IV. Unlike other kelp extracts, those "shortcut chemicals" are not destroyed during production. Even the producers don't have a solid handle on the product's action, but laboratory and field studies all confirm its efficacy.
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Last edited by Ray; 07-17-2021 at 09:40 AM..
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  #3  
Old 07-17-2021, 10:10 AM
Orchid Whisperer Orchid Whisperer is offline
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How much success have you had rooting old rootless Cattleya back-bulbs. Male
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I wouldn't dismiss any root growth stimulant, as long as you know what's in it (I don't use Super thrive - nope, not me). Kelp extract, go for it. I've used KLN successfully (must have been a fresh batch, if not fresh, it won't work).

If the plant tissue is my capable of making roots, stimulants can work. Not all plant tissues can make roots, quite old back rhizomes are probably less capable. IMO, best hope on a back bulb is for the plant tissue to be hydrated enough for a dormant lateral meristem to start growing.
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  #4  
Old 07-17-2021, 11:13 AM
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...
If the plant tissue is [] capable of making roots, stimulants can work. Not all plant tissues can make roots, quite old back rhizomes are probably less capable. IMO, best hope on a back bulb is for the plant tissue to be hydrated enough for a dormant lateral meristem to start growing.
I'm inclined to agree. The big challenge is getting the water into the old de-hydrated back-bulbs.

I have a mounted C. violacea that is 13 bulbs in a single un-branched vine. Only the oldest bulb has lost its roots. If it were grown in a pot, several of the oldest bulbs would have died by now. Bulb life is limited for most potted sympodials due to the root loss that occurs when trimming the plant to fit in a new pot. It would be nice if we could train them to grow in a nice neat spiral.

k-Sci

---------- Post added at 10:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by Orchid Whisperer View Post
...I've used KLN successfully (must have been a fresh batch, if not fresh, it won't work)...
Mine is dated not to be sold or used after April 28, 2022. Can this be considered fresh?

K-Sci

Last edited by K-Sci; 07-17-2021 at 10:54 AM..
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  #5  
Old 07-17-2021, 01:27 PM
Orchid Whisperer Orchid Whisperer is offline
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k-Sci

---------- Post added at 10:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 AM ----------


Mine is dated not to be sold or used after April 28, 2022. Can this be considered fresh?

K-Sci
I'd at least give it a try. TBH, that KLN I used was years ago, I don't recall it having a date. I had read (again, years ago) that KLN tends to lose potency. It's good that yours is "use by" dated.
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