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12-08-2020, 09:52 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Pahoa, Hawai'i, So. Sandwich Isls.
Posts: 537
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Induce Lower Nighttime Temps?
I have a Den. Mousmee [D. amabile X D. thyrsiflorum] X Den. frameri, had it for 5 years or more.
It is tree mounted, grows well, but has never bloomed.
The plant's ancestors are all callista section species.
D.'s farmeri and thyrsiflorum are the coolest growing.
The Baker's tome shows the habitat for amabile as having the warmest Jan/Feb nighttime temp of 50/51°F.
While D.s farmeri and thyrsiflorum have habitat temps below 50°F down as low as 45°F for the same period.
I do not want to remove it from the tree, moving it to a raft type mount.
Although, I could possibly put a raft into a refrigerator during the night for a few weeks possibly initiating blooming.
But, it would inconveniently take up a lot of room.
I'm not very hot on the idea of farming it out to someone up in Volcano at 4 to 5k' elevation that might get cool enough temps for it.
I'd rather keep it on the tree and figure a way to cool it while outside here.
In 7 years, the coolest winter morning temps I've ever seen here have only been about 65° +/- 1 or 2°.
So, my question:
Is there any practical way to lower an outdoor tree mounted plant's nighttime temp 5 to 10°F or more?
EDIT:
I also have a D. chrysotoxum, another callista.
The Bakers tome also shows it as having 50°/51°F winter habitat nighttime temps.
I threw it outdoors and told it to fly.
It blooms nicely for me every year.
Go figure.
Last edited by voyager; 12-08-2020 at 09:55 PM..
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12-08-2020, 10:12 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oak Island NC
Posts: 15,159
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No first-hand experience here at all, but I’ve read that Cymbidium growers have been successful dumping ice on their plants to induce the chill. Anyway you can play with that?
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12-08-2020, 10:13 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 403
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if you water it at night evaporative cooling may give you the effect you desire.
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12-08-2020, 11:23 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Zone: 10a
Location: Coastal southern California, USA
Posts: 13,749
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I wonder if just cutting back on water for a month or two might give it the shock that it needs.
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12-09-2020, 06:41 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Pahoa, Hawai'i, So. Sandwich Isls.
Posts: 537
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@Ray
The plant is mounted on the trunk of a palm.
I have considered tenting it with visqueen and adding ice to a small shelf inside above it.
I'm leery because too many things can go wrong.
The methods needs to be worked out with consistent attention while ice or such is being used to get needed temps and not do damage.
At our temps ice won't last the night.
Our nightly temps begin about 75° @ ~6/7pm then drop slowly to 65° at ~7/8am.
The temp begins to rise after the morning sun appears.
The lowest temp is only for a very short period.
Ice of any type won't last very long at our temps.
Off the top of my head, I thing Ice would need to be added daily about 3 or 4 am, maybe later.
I'm thinking that I'd need to build a trial shelf and tent, then monitor how much ice and time would be needed to get the cooling needed without damaging the plant.
The biggest problem is that most of the work would need to be done daily in the middle of the night.
The epidemic has impacted shipping to the islands.
Fridges are breaking down without replacements being available.
Prices are skyrocketing.
The cheapest mini fridge I can find is $100 on CL and $300 at HD.
Too much just for this project.
I do tend to be a bit anal and over think things.
But, I've got 5+/- years of unbloomed, leafed PBs on this thing.
If I can get it to flower, chances are it could produce a humongous number of inflorescences giving a very impressive bloom, well worth putting effort into it and getting it right for maximum results.
@fish and Roberta
I'm at 750' elevation on the windward side of the island on a clearing in the jungle just over the top of a pali [cliff].
We're rated at 150 in/yr with higher local precip due to our location.
Rh goes up to 95 to 100% every night when the temps drop.
We do get a few periods short on rainfall.
Rh is never less than 65% even on a hot clear day.
This is not a desert or green house.
Manipulating water is a lost cause.
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12-09-2020, 07:31 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 441
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Ice is not very realistic long term and if a fridge is out the question you have to rely on old fashioned methods.
I once learnt that a black t-shirt will heat you up in the sun, a white t-shirt will not heat up as much and a wet shite t-shirt will actually cool you due to the evaporative cooling being stronger than the sun's heat.
This evaporative cooling will carry on throughout the night so maybe maybe make a slanted shadecloth out of white cloth that stays dipped in a bucket of water to keep it wet. Then pot the plant in a clay pot which cool the plant a bit too. Place the plant in the shade of the cloth, I'm guessing light should not be an issue where you are even keeping it in the shade in a sunny spot. It's worth a try. And use a fan constantly - this cools the plant further too
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12-09-2020, 08:13 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oak Island NC
Posts: 15,159
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A white t-shirt won't heat up as much, but won't cool anything at all.
Voyager - I don't know that absolute temperatures are important. In phals, for example, it's the reduction in average temperature that matters. Might not the same be true for your plant? I don't have any idea, but who knows?
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12-10-2020, 09:54 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 441
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a wet white t-shirt placed on ones head in a hot desert does cool.
That is scientifically proved Ray.
The sun heats obviously but water evaporating cools, when the cooling force exceeds the heating force of the sun the t-shirt starts cooling.
This only happens with a white t-shirt as the white refelcts away most of the sun's heat.
It's science Ray. Just like when you drop a pebble, it falls to the floor, that is called gravity.
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12-10-2020, 11:07 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Zone: 10a
Location: Coastal southern California, USA
Posts: 13,749
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Evaporative cooling doesn't do much at 100% humidity.
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Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
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12-10-2020, 12:57 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oak Island NC
Posts: 15,159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orchidtinkerer
a wet white t-shirt placed on ones head in a hot desert does cool.
That is scientifically proved Ray.
The sun heats obviously but water evaporating cools, when the cooling force exceeds the heating force of the sun the t-shirt starts cooling.
This only happens with a white t-shirt as the white refelcts away most of the sun's heat.
It's science Ray. Just like when you drop a pebble, it falls to the floor, that is called gravity.
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No argument on those pieces of info, but 1) I didn’t see “wet” in your earlier statement , and 2) water evaporates from black cloth too. Granted the net temperature change is lower...
Of course, as another scholarly person suggested, evaporative cooling is of little good in a saturated environment.
There is no need to be insulting with stupid, irrelevant comments about rocks and gravity.
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