The Greenhouse floor project moves ahead.

[Ray]

My understanding is that it is an earthen floor with so-so drainage, hence the desire for pavers.

In my last scenario, the thick layer of gravel is the sink, sump, or retention basin, whichever term you prefer.

[BrassavolaStars]

The problem I have is that you need sand to get pavers anywhere close to being level and secure from my understanding. The bottom won’t just be dirt as I’ll have a 3 inch layer of gravel. I am excavating 6 inches down to do this but I thought that would solve the problem

---------- Post added at 12:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 PM ----------

Originally Posted by DirtyCoconuts

i thought the bottom was dirt?

if it is not you DO need some drainage channels or at least a sink in the bottom with drainage to that (dig a 3-4' hole and fill with gravel)

The bottom is in fact dirt. My plan was to dig out 6 inches of the dirt, put 3 inches of gravel, an inch of sand for leveling, and then the pavers. I don’t really have a subterranean foundation aside from metal footers.

[DirtyCoconuts]

If there is some way allow the water to run out of the area that’s better but more gravel will also act as the needed drain

[Ray]

Tamp the gravel reasonably level with the flat-bottom tamping tool.

Then, if you lay a 4' section of 2x8, 10, or 12 on the gravel and pound on the top, you can "final" level a pretty reasonable area at once. Move the board so it's 75% over untamped gravel, and you can tamp it to match the 25%. Continue moving and tamping until it's all level.

Better yet, rent a turf roller, and do most of the leveling that way.

[Dollythehun]

FWIW, we've made drains/sumps out of old five gallon buckets full of gravel with holes drilled in. You can even buy lids for them if you want to get fancy.

[DirtyCoconuts]

i have done as Dolly suggests, it makes the hole digging a lot easier if the bucket is used as it makes the cylinder and holds the shape, you use less rock that way but you need buckets.

one other thought to throw out there is to get a few runs of PVC as long as the greenhouse and drill a million holes in them and then run them along the dirt (even better, flush with the dirt) so that water has an escape path to the edge where you have a furrow or gutter to a deep hole drain.

everything else can be done the same and this will let the water leave as opposed to just slowly settle through the dirt as Ray pointed out

[WaterWitchin]

Or buy some slotted drain pipe and put at bottom in three or four places across. Cheaper than PVC and no drilling, just a tad more digging. I usually just use limestone chat instead of sand. It levels out pavers just fine and doesn’t settle into gravel as quickly or as much as sand.

The other thing to keep in mind is everyone is gonna tell you how they would do it. You have to pick out what you want out of the mix, because you’re going to get conflicting opinions. It feels sometimes like you’re feeling hopeless with all the varied opinions and options. Everyone wants to help, not confuse or confound ya.

At end of day, the main thing is looking at options, developing your plan, then start digging.

---------- Post added at 04:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:26 PM ----------

PS What is the soil like where greenhouse is? Clay, sandy, fast drainage? That’s your base.

[BrassavolaStars]

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

Or buy some slotted drain pipe and put at bottom in three or four places across. Cheaper than PVC and no drilling, just a tad more digging. I usually just use limestone chat instead of sand. It levels out pavers just fine and doesn’t settle into gravel as quickly or as much as sand.

The other thing to keep in mind is everyone is gonna tell you how they would do it. You have to pick out what you want out of the mix, because you’re going to get conflicting opinions. It feels sometimes like you’re feeling hopeless with all the varied opinions and options. Everyone wants to help, not confuse or confound ya.

At end of day, the main thing is looking at options, developing your plan, then start digging.

---------- Post added at 04:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:26 PM ----------

PS What is the soil like where greenhouse is? Clay, sandy, fast drainage? That’s your base.

The soil in my yard and greenhouse is very dense clay soil. Unfortunately it drains very slowly and tends to make puddles (especially in the greenhouse).

This is becoming a problem as it is bringing mosquitos. No matter how many mosquito control services I get, it seems while I have the current situation in the greenhouse, it is in vain.

I could probably get landscape fabric to stop the sand from mixing with the gravel if that would be helpful. I kind of already ordered the sand a few days ago on the sayso of the masonry store and there are no returns.

My hope was that the water would drain in between the pavers into the recycled item 4 gravel below. I thought it wouldn't be an issue as I am putting the pavers themselves a few inches above grade level and could forego a drain.

I am not entirely sure how I would plan out a drain as the entirety of my yard is very poor draining. Digging in my yard is a torture because it has so many subterrianian rocks and the soil may as well be pottery clay that was left to dry out slightly.

To be perfectly honest though, I have never done any masonry work in my not-that-long-life and certainly never something this complex.

Thank you all for the suggestions. I will try to keep everyone updated. The delivery is coming today so I should have some updates soon.

[WaterWitchin]

Well, Brassavola, that explains a lot, and likely that should have been the first question asked. Makes a big difference. Ugh on the clay soil. When I first moved here I had an FHA loan. There were no gutters and the ground next to the foundation had eroded. The lender insisted the seller put on guttering AND backfill more dirt around the house. Of course the seller used the crappiest cheap soil they could find, and it was almost solid clay. Took at least a decade to grow things well on any side of the house.

My opinion, and I know it's after the fact... I would have gone with #3 gravel instead of #4. It's washed, and allows for more drainage. I figured your supplies were already ordered and no going back since it was being delivered, so work with what you have. Or get a second load of #3 and some chat, then use the #3 elsewhere, and use the sand around outside perimeter of greenhouse to un-clay the soil somewhat. And that may not be economically feasible.

Leaving the pavers above ground level will help. Also leave them a bit higher than the brick perimeter you're putting on the inside. Maybe a half inch max, depending on the pavers you're using. Put a layer of permeable geotextile at bottom of the base once you've dug. Then the gravel, and tamp it well. Were it me, I would lightly wet it, then tamp again. Then do another permeable layer of geotextile over that, then your sand base and lay the pavers. Don't fill in any gap in pavers. Use the mallet to tamp down each paver to level.

I'm not sure why you're putting a row of bricks around outside perimeter of the greenhouse foundation. Rationale being?? You could always save those bricks and see how it drains, then do a french drain on outside perimeter later if needed. i.e., it doesn't drain to your satisfaction.

Definitely I'll be here cheering you on! It's a lot of hard work, and you don't want to do it twice. Have you figured out screeding yet? Feel free to give a shout out if not. I've never done a greenhouse floor, but have laid more than my fair share of patios, sidewalks and pathways. It was part of the biz.

Here's your first cheerleader squad...

[BrassavolaStars]

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

I'm not sure why you're putting a row of bricks around outside perimeter of the greenhouse foundation. Rationale being?? You could always save those bricks and see how it drains, then do a french drain on outside perimeter later if needed. i.e., it doesn't drain to your satisfaction.

Definitely I'll be here cheering you on! It's a lot of hard work, and you don't want to do it twice. Have you figured out screeding yet? Feel free to give a shout out if not. I've never done a greenhouse floor, but have laid more than my fair share of patios, sidewalks and pathways. It was part of the biz.

Here's your first cheerleader squad...

Thank you so much for being part of my cheering squad. I could really use it as the gravity of the job is starting to dawn on me and the colder weather is coming earlier than is usual.

The reason I am putting the perimeter bricks is because I don’t have a buried perimeter foundation, only metal footers.

Because of this, the soil erodes under the base and leaves an air gap which makes my heating bill astronomical as wind gets into the structure. I am using the bricks like garden edging to keep the dirt (well draining dirt I bought) surrounding the base and therefore keeping the winter weather out better.

---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 PM ----------

The first step I have to do now is excavate 6 inches down which is about 3500lbs of dirt if my estimate is correct. I am really glad I have an electric tiller as I think that may break up the clay a bit.

After I do this, I may try to build a drain. I find the bucket filled with gravel idea interesting. This is essentially a drywell? Can this be inside the greenhouse with a slight grade bringing the water towards it?

One of the problems I have now though is that I am way over budget with the pavers. I ended up going with these nicolock ones there were available immediately and they were a bit pricier than I would have liked.