The Quality of Water: Beating My Dead Horse - Page 2 - Orchid Board

My Green Pets · #11 07-16-2020, 04:25 AM

His backyard is a mini water-treatment plant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyCoconuts

2500?!?? What sort of vessel holds that ??

I just use good old Rocky Mountain snowmelt (that is, tap water) here in Colorado. The local nursery uses tap as well. Apparently TDS isn't bad here, but I haven't seen the numbers myself.

SouthPark · #12 07-16-2020, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Green Pets

HI just use good old Rocky Mountain snowmelt (that is, tap water) here in Colorado. The local nursery uses tap as well. Apparently TDS isn't bad here, but I haven't seen the numbers myself.

Some nice foothills run-off water will definitely wake up those orchids hahahaha

WaterWitchin · #13 07-16-2020, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyCoconuts

2500?!?? What sort of vessel holds that ??

Around here we call that a cistern, DC.

And you don't count, because you're already watering four or five times a week.

Am surprised to hear you're using tap water.

Kudos to you and JScott for reef tanks, and Subrosa although he didn't mention it. I love looking at them, but too much fiddling with them when you have the attention span of a gnat. I had RO setup anyway, because of my high pH and raising cichlids. Could have used pH Down, but the crusties on the tank from evaporation made it worthwhile.

JScott... so you're saying you've been in numerous locations, and just use tap water now because you don't note a significant enough difference to do otherwise? And no worries about this being a scientific study... I leave that to scientific type folks. That's part of this conversation... how fine-tuned does one need to be to successfully grow orchids that bloom well?

hypostatic... I really have no idea if my tap water is "horrible"... for orchids. It depends is right... on whose opinion one is listening to. That's why I keep asking for opinions. I understand the concern of calcium deposits when using a mister.

I've had a MistKing set up for years, mostly to water a group of mounted plants (now almost all just Tolumnia). I use RO for it regardless of the rest. It's why I mentioned my TDS and Total Alkalinity (which of course increases pH). That's usually the part that's pointed out to me as being where my not-good-enough water comes in.

thefish... I agree with this statement, and I think it's what I'm talking about:

If your water isn't ideal pH or TDS but you provide consistent watering and good culture the plant's roots and microorganisms will adapt eventually- maybe the plant won't be growing to its full genetic potential but if adjusting your water to an ideal state is too much work or it results in less watering frequency or whatever then it becomes an obvious trade off. Personally, if I had more space I'd just make a big reservoir of tap water and acidify it with sulfuric acid because pH adjustment is annoying as WaterWitchin' has stated. However, the results I've had with pH adjustment have been positive.

One thing I noticed before I started using RO water was I never had issues with calcium/mag looking deficiencies. And now from time to time I do. So I started mixing about half tap water, half RO water every now and then other than phrags/paphs. So your statement about adjusting pH... interesting. I'm adjusting pH by using RO water, only to develop a different issue. PS...pH Down that they sell for large water garden ponds is much safer than sulfuric acid. I can't imagine myself playing with it.

I'd also add... I don't necessarily need for each orchid to grow to it's full genetic potential. Just grow without disease and bloom well. Heck, I'm not sure I even raised my kids to their full genetic potential.

Ray · #14 07-16-2020, 08:57 AM

A few “bullet point” comments;

1. Be careful relying on TDS meters for reliable readings. MSURO @ 100 ppm N In absolutely pure water has a true TDS of about 770 ppm. I’ve never seen a TDS meter show that level.

2. WW’s comment about watering more frequently when she could just turn on the spigot is significant. More frequent watering will always lead to better plants, all else being equivalent and if you’re smart enough to use a potting medium compatible with that.

3. When orchid roots are exposed to ions in the irrigation water, the capture them all. It just seems logical to me that those solutions should be in the concentrations and relative proportions the plants have evolved to expect.

4. If you have hard water, the dissolved carbonates can interfere with the uptake of other, more important ions, despite our efforts to “control” the feeding regimen through choice of fertilizers and additives.

5. Does it make a difference? Yes! Is it a discernible difference? There are lots of variables - human, cultural, and slowness of growth - that can affect the answer.

I won’t ever claim to be the best orchid grower (you should see the issues I’m having learning how to grow without a greenhouse again), but back when my culture was very stable and I was attentive, switching from Bucks County PA well water to RO made a world of difference. Within a matter of weeks, newly-growing leaves were all very clean and shiny, and that wasn’t only related to reduced mineral deposits. Plants grown with more mineral-laden water will have a dull texture compared with ones grown with purer water.

hypostatic · #15 07-16-2020, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

switching from Bucks County PA well water to RO made a world of difference. Within a matter of weeks, newly-growing leaves were all very clean and shiny, and that wasn’t only related to reduced mineral deposits. Plants grown with more mineral-laden water will have a dull texture compared with ones grown with purer water.

I have seen similar things on my end as well. I am on municipal water that is regulated, and within "acceptable" ranges for human consumption.

I also run the tap through a less intensive filter for drinking.

DirtyCoconuts · #16 07-16-2020, 10:51 AM

i had three things happen to make me accept the local water.

one- i saw my orchid friend and neighbor outside with a hose just blasting her trees full of hanging and mounted plants and she said she had been using the city water for 30 years with her good results

two- i learned the local two nurseries i frequent do as well and when i inquired to them i learned....

three- all of our municipal water is aquafer fed before treatment. as a result, according to the UM water analysis, the water is particularly neutral and generally free of minerals from the natural filter

lol

i still use the rainwater a lot bc there is no hose bib on the back of my house (WHY?!?!?!?!?!) and so if i am hauling water it will be sky pee

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

Around here we call that a cistern, DC.

And you don't count, because you're already watering four or five times a week.

Am surprised to hear you're using tap water.

Kudos to you and JScott for reef tanks, and Subrosa although he didn't mention it. I love looking at them, but too much fiddling with them when you have the attention span of a gnat. I had RO setup anyway, because of my high pH and raising cichlids. Could have used pH Down, but the crusties on the tank from evaporation made it worthwhile.

JScott... so you're saying you've been in numerous locations, and just use tap water now because you don't note a significant enough difference to do otherwise? And no worries about this being a scientific study... I leave that to scientific type folks. That's part of this conversation... how fine-tuned does one need to be to successfully grow orchids that bloom well?

hypostatic... I really have no idea if my tap water is "horrible"... for orchids. It depends is right... on whose opinion one is listening to. That's why I keep asking for opinions. I understand the concern of calcium deposits when using a mister.

I've had a MistKing set up for years, mostly to water a group of mounted plants (now almost all just Tolumnia). I use RO for it regardless of the rest. It's why I mentioned my TDS and Total Alkalinity (which of course increases pH). That's usually the part that's pointed out to me as being where my not-good-enough water comes in.

thefish... I agree with this statement, and I think it's what I'm talking about:

If your water isn't ideal pH or TDS but you provide consistent watering and good culture the plant's roots and microorganisms will adapt eventually- maybe the plant won't be growing to its full genetic potential but if adjusting your water to an ideal state is too much work or it results in less watering frequency or whatever then it becomes an obvious trade off. Personally, if I had more space I'd just make a big reservoir of tap water and acidify it with sulfuric acid because pH adjustment is annoying as WaterWitchin' has stated. However, the results I've had with pH adjustment have been positive.

One thing I noticed before I started using RO water was I never had issues with calcium/mag looking deficiencies. And now from time to time I do. So I started mixing about half tap water, half RO water every now and then other than phrags/paphs. So your statement about adjusting pH... interesting. I'm adjusting pH by using RO water, only to develop a different issue. PS...pH Down that they sell for large water garden ponds is much safer than sulfuric acid. I can't imagine myself playing with it.

I'd also add... I don't necessarily need for each orchid to grow to it's full genetic potential. Just grow without disease and bloom well. Heck, I'm not sure I even raised my kids to their full genetic potential.

WaterWitchin · #17 07-16-2020, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

A few “bullet point” comments;

2. WW’s comment about watering more frequently when she could just turn on the spigot is significant. More frequent watering will always lead to better plants, all else being equivalent and if you’re smart enough to use a potting medium compatible with that.

If you're smart enough to use a potting medium compatible with that... I'm not smart enough to get it. What does that mean? Compatible medium with harder water? Higher pH? I use LECA, semi-hydro... what does that mean?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

4. If you have hard water, the dissolved carbonates can interfere with the uptake of other, more important ions, despite our efforts to “control” the feeding regimen through choice of fertilizers and additives.

What range is considered "hard water?" The usual rule of thumb of less than 200 TDS? The amount of total alkalinity?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

5. Does it make a difference? Yes! Is it a discernible difference? There are lots of variables - human, cultural, and slowness of growth - that can affect the answer.

I think therein lies the rub, at least for me. That's part of what I'm saying... I don't see a discernible difference. Unless there's something I'm not discerning enough to see, which is also very possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

I won’t ever claim to be the best orchid grower (you should see the issues I’m having learning how to grow without a greenhouse again), but back when my culture was very stable and I was attentive, switching from Bucks County PA well water to RO made a world of difference. Within a matter of weeks, newly-growing leaves were all very clean and shiny, and that wasn’t only related to reduced mineral deposits. Plants grown with more mineral-laden water will have a dull texture compared with ones grown with purer water.

I'm definitely not in the category of being a best orchid grower... likely stable and attentive culture has never been a strong suit for me, with anything. Are you talking about the leaves being duller because of mineral deposits on them? Or just a duller texture overall? I've not noticed that with mine, regardless of tap or RO. Maybe just a subtlety I'm not paying attention to?

---------- Post added at 09:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 AM ----------

Man DC! You do live in paradise. Great humidity, great water, anoles. I think watching an orchid friend/mentor spraying everything with a hose next door is a pretty darned good tip-off!

DirtyCoconuts · #18 07-16-2020, 12:59 PM

so i threw a couple 'cados in the box to you and as i was picking them i saw two gold dust (fleck) day geckos on the tree.....they were so close to a trip to Kansas!!!!
I decided better of it

isurus79 · #19 07-16-2020, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyCoconuts

2500?!?? What sort of vessel holds that ??

Just a regular drinking water one! That's for the plants. I've got 2- 10,000 gallon tanks for my house!

---------- Post added at 12:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Green Pets

His backyard is a mini water-treatment plant.

Yep, you've seen it!

WaterWitchin · #20 07-16-2020, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyCoconuts

so i threw a couple 'cados in the box to you and as i was picking them i saw two gold dust (fleck) day geckos on the tree.....they were so close to a trip to Kansas!!!!
I decided better of it

Where's the I'm crying button? {{sob}}

---------- Post added at 12:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by isurus79

Just a regular drinking water one! That's for the plants. I've got 2- 10,000 gallon tanks for my house!....

Who the heck does this? And Why?!?