Perfect root moisture content - Orchid Board

Rob189 · #1 07-11-2020, 01:45 PM

Hey guys.

I seem to be in an ideal situation where i can control how wet the roots on my phal get, but having it grow on a rock, with no substrate, next to a miniature water feature.

Ive been told to mist the roots twice a day, but that doesnt seem to be enough.

I can very easily have water flow over a couple of the roots during the day, but is this a safe practice?

Alternatively, i can add a bunch of sphagnum moss inbetween the roots and let it wick up water from the ittle puddle below the orchid. This approach feels a little uncontrolled though.

Any thoughts?

---------- Post added at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 PM ----------

Carebear2 · #2 07-11-2020, 02:50 PM

I can't see any issues with this - if you can have the fountain on a timer to come on every 3 hours for 5 minutes or so that would be the ideal way to grow your phal.

If not and the fountain is on constantly, I have seen people use far worse setups - ditch the spagnum, spagnum moss can absorb 19 times its own weight in water and will become waterlogged

Roberta · #3 07-11-2020, 02:52 PM

Phals, like Vandas, like humidity and a wet-dry cycle. So while it might adapt to being constanty wet (people do get away with growing them in water... for at least awhile, that's not what they want naturally) But I think that you need to plan to give the roots a chance to dry out somewhat after they are saturated. In nature, they grow bare-root on trees in tropical places such as the Philippines, where humidity is high, and they get rained on nearly every day, but then the rain stops and they dry out.

Ray · #4 07-12-2020, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roberta

Phals, like Vandas, like humidity and a wet-dry cycle.
<snipped by RB>
In nature, they grow bare-root on trees in tropical places such as the Philippines, where humidity is high, and they get rained on nearly every day, but then the rain stops and they dry out.

Except that, in places with such high humidity, they often do not dry out between rain storms.

Rob189 · #5 07-13-2020, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roberta

Phals, like Vandas, like humidity and a wet-dry cycle. So while it might adapt to being constanty wet (people do get away with growing them in water... for at least awhile, that's not what they want naturally) But I think that you need to plan to give the roots a chance to dry out somewhat after they are saturated. In nature, they grow bare-root on trees in tropical places such as the Philippines, where humidity is high, and they get rained on nearly every day, but then the rain stops and they dry out.

The water pump does get turned off when the lights turn off

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthPark

Rob ---- I can see a phal in that image appearing to grow well already. There's no image that indicates that the orchid is having growing issues.

Might need to clarify the meaning of 'doesn't seem to be enough'.

The roots were looking very dehydrated unless i kept misting very frequently.

Orchid has only been in this setup for a week or so now

---------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:24 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carebear2

my phals hate a dry cycle - I have come to the conclusion that the main reason this is recommended is to let bark dry out between watering if a phal is grown in bark. If bark is kept constantly moist it will rot. So the dry cycle is not what a phal needs - it seems to be what the media needs if you are growing in bark.

That is my conclusion. A dry time on my phals always makes them drop flowers. I grow in pumice which always stays damp instead

Like Roberta I am opposed to growing roots completely submerged in water - the lack of oxygen is detrimental in the long run - but this is not the same as constantly moist.

They wouldnt really be completely submerged in water. What i want to do is have the roots touching the moving water. The water will then flow down the roots and end up back in the pool.

The pump gets turned off at night.

My main goal is to have a setup thats very low maintenance. Im fine with misting occasionally, but dont want to be doing it multiple times a day

---------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:28 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

I'm with SouthPark.... it looks fine to me. What, to you, appears to be the problem?

My laziness to mist the roots

---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:28 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

Orchids will grow just fine in highly diverse set-ups.

In general, I find that very few orchids really need to dry out between waterings. I do it for C. walkeriana, but not for any of my other (500+) Cattleyas. Likewise, all** my Vandaceous plants are in baskets or net pots, filled with spaghnum/bark mix (about 4:1). When I water, I make sure that these all get fully waterlogged.

I also do experiment at times. Couple of years ago I stuck a Vandachostylis Dainty (Rhy. retusa x Neof. falcata) into a cork tube filled with Aliflor, and set it in a plastic tray with 1-2" of water. It happily adapted, and sent live roots right into the water.

Then I got tired of tipping out stale water, so I hung the cork tube on a wire mesh wall together with my mounted plants. There it gets watered at the same time as all the potted plants (currently 3 times a weeek during the summer). It is still doing fine (and roots that used to be in the water are still alive).

And, it happily bloomed under both setups.

** = One exception. Rhy. gigantea is more like a succulent, with thick fleshy leaves. These I put in a basket filled with Aliflor/LECA nuggets (with a thin liner of coconut fibres to prevent nuggets from falling out). This accomplishes two purposes:

1. It allows this plant to reach a dry stage between waterings.
2. It minimizes the number of times I have to repot, since Rhy. gigantea HATES having it's roots disturbed.

You reckon I’d be fine with about 14hours a day of water flowing over around 50% of the roots.

I’ll have to manually mist the other 50%. Speaking of, would a waterlogged root supply water to a dry root?

Also, i just noticed tat the water in the tank is really cold. Would this be an issue at all? Its winter here in SA currently.

Carebear2 · #6 07-13-2020, 02:04 PM

You reckon I’d be fine with about 14hours a day of water flowing over around 50% of the roots.

yes

I’ll have to manually mist the other 50%. Speaking of, would a waterlogged root supply water to a dry root?

yes the wet roots will provide moisture to the dry roots and keep them hydrated.

Also, i just noticed tat the water in the tank is really cold. Would this be an issue at all? Its winter here in SA currently

Possibly could be an issue. I wouldn't let the temps go below 60F so as long as your room is not colder the water won't go below 60 either. Water always feels colder than air but 60F minimum should be okish. Day time temps which is when the water will be flowing should ideally be above 65F though

SouthPark · #7 07-13-2020, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob189

The roots were looking very dehydrated unless i kept misting very frequently.

Orchid has only been in this setup for a week or so now

Rob - I am assuming that your system is automated, or can be automated - as you mentioned that you can 'control' how well the roots get.

Quote:

I seem to be in an ideal situation where i can control how wet the roots on my phal get, but having it grow on a rock, with no substrate, next to a miniature water feature.

I've been told to mist the roots twice a day, but that doesnt seem to be enough.

If twice a day doesn't seem to be enough, then try just doubling the number of times - such as 4 times a day ...... automated misting of the roots. Keep increasing the number of times per day until you find a workable value.

Rob189 · #8 07-14-2020, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouthPark

Rob - I am assuming that your system is automated, or can be automated - as you mentioned that you can 'control' how well the roots get.

If twice a day doesn't seem to be enough, then try just doubling the number of times - such as 4 times a day ...... automated misting of the roots. Keep increasing the number of times per day until you find a workable value.

Nope, not automated yet. I just turn everything thing on in the morning before work. Then turn off before bed.

---------- Post added at 06:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 AM ----------

Had a look this this morning. Roots are looking a lot happier. Just just need to remove all the spagnum moss that i added and try get some water flowing over a few more roots

Thanks for all the help guys

WaterWitchin · #9 07-14-2020, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob189

The water pump does get turned off when the lights turn off

The roots were looking very dehydrated unless i kept misting very frequently.

Orchid has only been in this setup for a week or so now

They wouldnt really be completely submerged in water. What i want to do is have the roots touching the moving water. The water will then flow down the roots and end up back in the pool.

The pump gets turned off at night.

My main goal is to have a setup thats very low maintenance. Im fine with misting occasionally, but dont want to be doing it multiple times a day

My laziness to mist the roots

You reckon I’d be fine with about 14hours a day of water flowing over around 50% of the roots.

I’ll have to manually mist the other 50%. Speaking of, would a waterlogged root supply water to a dry root?

Also, i just noticed tat the water in the tank is really cold. Would this be an issue at all? Its winter here in SA currently.

I'm gonna chime in differently, now that you've answered my question... That being, it looks fine, what do you think is wrong with the roots....and the answer, too lazy to mist all the time.

It appears this is a one-shot way of growing a Phal so it adds ambiance to your fountain. You want to not mist all the time. Folks do grow Phals in water culture (not me) doing just what you're doing... letting part of roots dangle in the water. Some can even bloom them, likely depending on the particular hybrid.

You say the roots look dehydrated unless you mist them two or three times daily. I find that very doubtful, especially over a moving fountain of water. Define what you think "dehydrated roots" look like. Or take a picture of what your dehydrated roots look like after a day of not misting.

I've had numerous Phals mounted on wood of some sort. I dunked them in water for an hour or so OR heavily sprayed them. Then hung them back up. No misting daily. If I did it every four or so days, they were just fine and bloomed.

So I think it looks fine. Perhaps you're not understanding what dehydrated roots really look like. Some DO grow in water culture. You've only had the plant in the fountain for a week.

I'd roll with it, mist the roots once or twice a week, and see how it does. Let some roots grow down into the water. The roots you put in the water may rot, may not, but the plant will adapt.

If it starts not looking so great (leaves dehydrated) put it on something that wicks water (short clay pot or cylinder) in the fountain and it will wick its own water. Or do that now (that's what I'd do).

A week's time isn't long enough for dehydrated roots. You're experimenting with what will work,because you want a phal in that spot. If it doesn't work in the long run, replace it with something else, or get three or four more phals and rotate them in and out of fountain every week.

SouthPark · #10 07-11-2020, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob189

I've been told to mist the roots twice a day, but that doesn't seem to be enough.

Rob ---- I can see a phal in that image appearing to grow well already. There's no image that indicates that the orchid is having growing issues.

Might need to clarify the meaning of 'doesn't seem to be enough'.