Perfect root moisture content

[Rob189]

Hey guys.

I seem to be in an ideal situation where i can control how wet the roots on my phal get, but having it grow on a rock, with no substrate, next to a miniature water feature.

Ive been told to mist the roots twice a day, but that doesnt seem to be enough.

I can very easily have water flow over a couple of the roots during the day, but is this a safe practice?

Alternatively, i can add a bunch of sphagnum moss inbetween the roots and let it wick up water from the ittle puddle below the orchid. This approach feels a little uncontrolled though.

Any thoughts?

---------- Post added at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 PM ----------

[Carebear2]

I can't see any issues with this - if you can have the fountain on a timer to come on every 3 hours for 5 minutes or so that would be the ideal way to grow your phal.

If not and the fountain is on constantly, I have seen people use far worse setups - ditch the spagnum, spagnum moss can absorb 19 times its own weight in water and will become waterlogged

[Roberta]

Phals, like Vandas, like humidity and a wet-dry cycle. So while it might adapt to being constanty wet (people do get away with growing them in water... for at least awhile, that's not what they want naturally) But I think that you need to plan to give the roots a chance to dry out somewhat after they are saturated. In nature, they grow bare-root on trees in tropical places such as the Philippines, where humidity is high, and they get rained on nearly every day, but then the rain stops and they dry out.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by Rob189

I've been told to mist the roots twice a day, but that doesn't seem to be enough.

Rob ---- I can see a phal in that image appearing to grow well already. There's no image that indicates that the orchid is having growing issues.

Might need to clarify the meaning of 'doesn't seem to be enough'.

[Carebear2]

my phals hate a dry cycle - I have come to the conclusion that the main reason this is recommended is to let bark dry out between watering if a phal is grown in bark. If bark is kept constantly moist it will rot. So the dry cycle is not what a phal needs - it seems to be what the media needs if you are growing in bark.

That is my conclusion. A dry time on my phals always makes them drop flowers. I grow in pumice which always stays damp instead

Like Roberta I am opposed to growing roots completely submerged in water - the lack of oxygen is detrimental in the long run - but this is not the same as constantly moist.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Phals, like Vandas, like humidity and a wet-dry cycle.
<snipped by RB>
In nature, they grow bare-root on trees in tropical places such as the Philippines, where humidity is high, and they get rained on nearly every day, but then the rain stops and they dry out.

Except that, in places with such high humidity, they often do not dry out between rain storms.

[WaterWitchin]

I'm with SouthPark.... it looks fine to me. What, to you, appears to be the problem?

[Fairorchids]

Orchids will grow just fine in highly diverse set-ups.

In general, I find that very few orchids really need to dry out between waterings. I do it for C. walkeriana, but not for any of my other (500+) Cattleyas. Likewise, all** my Vandaceous plants are in baskets or net pots, filled with spaghnum/bark mix (about 4:1). When I water, I make sure that these all get fully waterlogged.

I also do experiment at times. Couple of years ago I stuck a Vandachostylis Dainty (Rhy. retusa x Neof. falcata) into a cork tube filled with Aliflor, and set it in a plastic tray with 1-2" of water. It happily adapted, and sent live roots right into the water.

Then I got tired of tipping out stale water, so I hung the cork tube on a wire mesh wall together with my mounted plants. There it gets watered at the same time as all the potted plants (currently 3 times a weeek during the summer). It is still doing fine (and roots that used to be in the water are still alive).

And, it happily bloomed under both setups.

** = One exception. Rhy. gigantea is more like a succulent, with thick fleshy leaves. These I put in a basket filled with Aliflor/LECA nuggets (with a thin liner of coconut fibres to prevent nuggets from falling out). This accomplishes two purposes:

1. It allows this plant to reach a dry stage between waterings.
2. It minimizes the number of times I have to repot, since Rhy. gigantea HATES having it's roots disturbed.

[Rob189]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Phals, like Vandas, like humidity and a wet-dry cycle. So while it might adapt to being constanty wet (people do get away with growing them in water... for at least awhile, that's not what they want naturally) But I think that you need to plan to give the roots a chance to dry out somewhat after they are saturated. In nature, they grow bare-root on trees in tropical places such as the Philippines, where humidity is high, and they get rained on nearly every day, but then the rain stops and they dry out.

The water pump does get turned off when the lights turn off

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 PM ----------

Originally Posted by SouthPark

Rob ---- I can see a phal in that image appearing to grow well already. There's no image that indicates that the orchid is having growing issues.

Might need to clarify the meaning of 'doesn't seem to be enough'.

The roots were looking very dehydrated unless i kept misting very frequently.

Orchid has only been in this setup for a week or so now

---------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:24 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Carebear2

my phals hate a dry cycle - I have come to the conclusion that the main reason this is recommended is to let bark dry out between watering if a phal is grown in bark. If bark is kept constantly moist it will rot. So the dry cycle is not what a phal needs - it seems to be what the media needs if you are growing in bark.

That is my conclusion. A dry time on my phals always makes them drop flowers. I grow in pumice which always stays damp instead

Like Roberta I am opposed to growing roots completely submerged in water - the lack of oxygen is detrimental in the long run - but this is not the same as constantly moist.

They wouldnt really be completely submerged in water. What i want to do is have the roots touching the moving water. The water will then flow down the roots and end up back in the pool.

The pump gets turned off at night.

My main goal is to have a setup thats very low maintenance. Im fine with misting occasionally, but dont want to be doing it multiple times a day

---------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:28 PM ----------

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

I'm with SouthPark.... it looks fine to me. What, to you, appears to be the problem?

My laziness to mist the roots

---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:28 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

Orchids will grow just fine in highly diverse set-ups.

In general, I find that very few orchids really need to dry out between waterings. I do it for C. walkeriana, but not for any of my other (500+) Cattleyas. Likewise, all** my Vandaceous plants are in baskets or net pots, filled with spaghnum/bark mix (about 4:1). When I water, I make sure that these all get fully waterlogged.

I also do experiment at times. Couple of years ago I stuck a Vandachostylis Dainty (Rhy. retusa x Neof. falcata) into a cork tube filled with Aliflor, and set it in a plastic tray with 1-2" of water. It happily adapted, and sent live roots right into the water.

Then I got tired of tipping out stale water, so I hung the cork tube on a wire mesh wall together with my mounted plants. There it gets watered at the same time as all the potted plants (currently 3 times a weeek during the summer). It is still doing fine (and roots that used to be in the water are still alive).

And, it happily bloomed under both setups.

** = One exception. Rhy. gigantea is more like a succulent, with thick fleshy leaves. These I put in a basket filled with Aliflor/LECA nuggets (with a thin liner of coconut fibres to prevent nuggets from falling out). This accomplishes two purposes:

1. It allows this plant to reach a dry stage between waterings.
2. It minimizes the number of times I have to repot, since Rhy. gigantea HATES having it's roots disturbed.

You reckon I’d be fine with about 14hours a day of water flowing over around 50% of the roots.

I’ll have to manually mist the other 50%. Speaking of, would a waterlogged root supply water to a dry root?

Also, i just noticed tat the water in the tank is really cold. Would this be an issue at all? Its winter here in SA currently.

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[Carebear2]

You reckon I’d be fine with about 14hours a day of water flowing over around 50% of the roots.

yes

I’ll have to manually mist the other 50%. Speaking of, would a waterlogged root supply water to a dry root?

yes the wet roots will provide moisture to the dry roots and keep them hydrated.

Also, i just noticed tat the water in the tank is really cold. Would this be an issue at all? Its winter here in SA currently

Possibly could be an issue. I wouldn't let the temps go below 60F so as long as your room is not colder the water won't go below 60 either. Water always feels colder than air but 60F minimum should be okish. Day time temps which is when the water will be flowing should ideally be above 65F though