Using bacteria, fungi and microfauna with orchids

[WaterWitchin]

Originally Posted by Ray

...The technical director mentioned that they populate the vascular tissue, so once exposed to light and the plant’s juices, they convert stuff and secrete sugars.

I love it! Bill Nye says plant juices... "they convert stuff!" How fun is that! That's a serious keeper note Ray!

---------- Post added at 10:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 AM ----------

PS Just.couldn't.resist.

[Mr.Fakename]

Originally Posted by DirtyCoconuts

Never dive in for the whole collection. Start on one plant lol

Nope, that wouldn't be a very smart move indeed!


I've talked with an orchid breeder and depending on how they grow, she might have Phal bellina flasks available soon.
My plan is to get ~40 seedlings, and separate them in 4 groups of 10 (genius at maths):

- 10 with DIY K-lite and kelp extract
- 10 with DIY K-lite, kelp extract and probiotics
- 10 with DIY K-lite, kelp extract and beneficial fungi
- 10 with DIY K-lite, kelp extract, probiotics and beneficial fungi


Growing them from de-flasked babies to blooming adults should give a good idea of how those microorganisms impact the plants on the long run.

[Ray]

Populations of 10 plants aren’t going to give statistically significant comparisons, but my own experience is that sometimes you can just see the differences.

---------- Post added at 09:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 AM ----------

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

I love it! Bill Nye says plant juices... "they convert stuff!" How fun is that! That's a serious keeper note Ray!

PS Just.couldn't.resist.

I’m glad you got a chuckle out of that, but those weren’t my words, WW. Preceded by “I won’t bother with the details...” those came from the technical director of the producer.

[Mr.Fakename]

How many plants would you recommend ?

I got my hands on a used terrarium and some full spectrum LEDs to get consistent conditions for all the seedlings, but space is going to be an issue with a sizeable quantity of them.
I also don't know how many flasks will be available and at what price, and I'm not going to be disrespectful and beg for a discount!

[DirtyCoconuts]

im guessing for four experimental groups and one control you'd need 500-1000 honestly

the goal would be seeing at least 100 but ideally 200 of a set of plants to try to eliminate any possible plant specific traits and only see the effect of the specific component you are testing

[Ray]

I’ve done “treatment experiments” twice - once when comparing my own root hormone concoction to Superthrive and a control (50 “subjects” each of three populations) and two populations of 150 or each of two kinds of plants (phals and oncids - so 300 plants in each population) when looking at the effect of different watering frequency in S/H growing.

The first evaluation was merely a visual comparison of size by several independent observers who didn’t know what the experiment was.

As making the sample sets “identical” is impossible, I went about it differently for the larger test. All the plants were established in identical S/H pots, so after choosing plant pairs that looked close to alike to split into the two sets, I watered them thoroughly to saturate the medium and refill all reservoirs, being careful to direct the water into the pot only, not wetting the foliage, waited about 15 minutes for the pots to finish dripping, then weighed them. 6 months later I repeated that process.

Ideally, the before and after weights of each individual plant should have been determined for some statistical crunching, but I weighed them in groups and simply determined the change in oncids as a whole and phals as a whole.

[WaterWitchin]

Originally Posted by Ray

I’m glad you got a chuckle out of that, but those weren’t my words, WW. Preceded by “I won’t bother with the details...” those came from the technical director of the producer.

Oh Bill... that makes it even funnier. You KNOW it does! Well of COURSE you wouldn't say that!!

My apologies!

[hypostatic]

Originally Posted by DirtyCoconuts

Never dive in for the whole collection. Start on one plant lol

And I'd say before you even start with one plant, do a literature search! No point in diving in blind!

Microbiota of the Orchid Rhizoplane

Mycorrhizal Relationships of Vanilla and Prospects for Biocontrol of Root Rots

Compatible fungi, suitable medium, and appropriate developmental stage essential for stable association of Dendrobium chrysanthum

Dendrobium nobile Lindl. seed germination in co-cultures with diverse associated bacteria

Orchid-associated bacteria produce indole-3-acetic acid, promote seed germination, and increase their microbial yield in response to exogenous auxin

Bacteria associated with orchid roots and microbial production of auxin

Just a little something to get your toes wet

As for me, I'll basically wait for a commercial solution haha.

That said, I HAVE recently tried this out: "Great White Premium Mycorrhizae - with Beneficial Bacteria and Trichoderma". I haven't tried it in any real scientific way, with controls and everything. So far, I haven't really seen any SIGNIFICANT difference in growth and etc using this product.

[Ray]

Before they shut down, I used Inocucor Garden Solution for years. It worked very well.

As that supply vanished, I did some research and began using Quantum-Total earlier this year. I have used it on all my orchids, impatiens I our deck flower boxes, other flowers, shrubs and trees around the yard, tomatoes and basil in raised beds, and a fig tree I was given by a customer a couple of months ago. Everything seems to be doing quite well.

Based upon my experience and reading, it does not appear that the specific natural plant/microbe species combinations are necessary in cultivation - and are extremely unlikely to exist, in fact - But many of the benefits are still present.

I have no idea the mechanism, but the treated plants appear to be more compact and densely-growing than in prior years. The technical director at Inocucor said to expect that in cannabis, and her counterpart at Quantum merely said “of course” while we were on a quick phone call. I really ought to follow up on that.

[Mr.Fakename]

Originally Posted by Ray

(50 “subjects” each of three populations) and two populations of 150 or each of two kinds of plants (phals and oncids - so 300 plants in each population)

I guess there's no practical way for "normal" people to test this, aside from getting a non-scientific feeling for how plants react.
It would still be interesting to try, maybe it'll serve as a proof of concept and I'll talk to local growers about it!

Originally Posted by hypostatic

As for me, I'll basically wait for a commercial solution haha.

You're right, I don't imagine how long and painful R&D must be. Thankfully some people know what they're doing, or at least fake it with a nice packaging


There's also a very interesting and well explained webinar by Dennis Whigham on the AOS website:
American Orchid Society Webinars