Seed Pod but no Seeds

[Ki6bud]

I crossed pollinated two phalaenopsis hybrids. The seed pods developed for the standard length of time. The pods never expanded during development. They were very tight. One pod opened but upon inspection there were no embryos. The other seed pods on these pants turned the lighter green so I got curious and opened them. No embryos. The flowers used were four or five days old. Any thoughts? Genetic issues?

[Ray]

Could be a genetic incompatibility - one of the parents might have been triploid, for example. Another consideration is the length of time since the flowers opened.

[Ki6bud]

Hi Ray - Are all triploids infertile? Would self pollination be a good test to see if it's a triploid? What are your recommendation when cross pollinating phals? First flower on the spike? How many days after first opening?

[Ray]

I have not done a lot of breeding, and never with phals, but my understanding is that triploids are sterile.

In the limited amount of hybridization I've attempted, those pollinated within a day or two of opening were more often successful.

[Fairorchids]

Triploids are sterile.

Phals have 38 chromosomes (2N), so polination results from 19+19 (or 38+38 if you are using tetraploids).

A triploid (3N) Phal has 57 chromosomes, which can't split evenly to mate with a 19 (or 38, if the other parent is tetraploid).

Some breeders do create new triploid hybrids, as some of the features of the tetraploid parent will come through - but the offspring is a dead end. If you buy from a reputable breeder/dealer, they will usually identify such plants, so you do not get disappointed if trying to breed with them.

With Phalaenopsis (99% of which come from Taiwan), they are only interested in producing product for the mass market. Whether the plants are 2, 3 or 4N is of no importance.

[Ki6bud]

Kim - It seems logical the best way to prove a triploid without spending money on genetic testing is to self cross the plant. This would eliminate other genetic factors from crossing to another plant. Your thoughts?